New Form of Mill -- Ordained Minister.

[DWCox]

The following is an exerpt from a recent email I received.

If this is old news, sorry.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"FW: You are about to become an ordained minister
Become a legally ordained minister within 48 hours
As a minister, you will be authorized to perform the rites and ceremonies of the church!

Perform Weddings, Funerals, and Perform Baptisms Forgiveness of Sins and Visit Correctional Facilities

Want to open a church?
Check out Ministry in a Box

Press here to find out how"

http://a.61.profiproductshop.com/rev/

[RA_Ph.D.]

The following is an exerpt from a recent email I received.

If this is old news, sorry.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"FW: You are about to become an ordained minister
Become a legally ordained minister within 48 hours
As a minister, you will be authorized to perform the rites and ceremonies of the church!

Perform Weddings, Funerals, and Perform Baptisms Forgiveness of Sins and Visit Correctional Facilities

Want to open a church?
Check out Ministry in a Box

Press here to find out how"

http://a.61.profiproductshop.com/rev/


Yeap, I'm a genuine, legally ordained minister in the Universal Life Church, Church of the Seven Planes and World Christianship Ministries, tripled D.D.ed, too (sort of like triple immersion baptism) It's real; it's legal (upheld in Federal Court) and you can start your own church legally. And there are many practicing "ministers" with such credentials: beware of wolves in sheep's clothing.

[Jabbezzz]

Yeap, I'm a genuine, legally ordained minister in the Universal Life Church, Church of the Seven Planes and World Christianship Ministries, tripled D.D.ed, too...........beware of wolves in sheep's clothing.

Ummm, are you saying you are a wolf in sheep's clothing, RA? :D

[Jimmy Clifton]

Ordination mills are as old as the hills. One of the very first in this country was founded by Angelo C. Spern. Spern founded the Calvary Grace Churches of Faith in 1954 in Rillton, PA. He also had Calvary Grace Bible Institute.

In 1961 The Calvary Grace Christian Church of Faith was founded by Herman Keck, Jr. Keck was ordained in the former group and then founded his own church issuing ministerial credentials and establishing the Faith Bible College and Theological Seminary, Ft. Lauderdale, FL.

I oppose ordination mills. I think ordination to ministry is serious business. No one should be ordained into the Christian ministry without several personal interviews and a "laying on of hands" ceremony.

I do not, however, believe that any church, organization, or ministry having names outside the traditional ones--Methodist, Baptist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, etc., are illegitimate.

Organizations like the Evangelical Church Alliance (http://www.ecainternational.org) are legal, valid, and legitimate ministry organizations that are honest, sincere, and dedicated to serving our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. In order to be ordained by the ECC, one must undergo personal interviews, take courses of study, and undergo a "laying on of hands" ceremony.

We seem to forget that most denominations in America were founded by one man or woman or a group of men and women. King Henry the Eighth, a murderer and adulterer, established the Church of England (Anglican, Episcopal). No one called that organization an ordination mill.

Ballington Booth, son of William Booth (founder of the Salvation Army), left the Salvationists and founded the Volunteers of America. George Fox founded the Quakers, Ann Lee founded the Shakers, and so forth and so forth. These were not called ordination mills and they ordained or commissioned or recorded ministers, many times without the candidate having a theological education.

Was the Methodist church called a mill when the Wesleys left the Church of England and founded it? Was the Christian church called an ordination mill when Stone and the Campbells left the Presbyterian church to found it and ordained persons, sometimes out in the middle of the woods? Many Universalist ministers were ordained by another minister with only those two present.

When we become critical of alternative ministry and educational entities, we must have a good sense, understanding, and knowledge of history in those areas.

[J]

It is worth remembering that you can go through a lot - but not all - of the ordination process online in some churches.

The Six Principle Baptists are a serious and well-established group, but everything in their ordination process seems to be electronic. If there is a personal interview at the end, I can't find mention of it on their website:

http://spbaptist.tripod.com/

[J]

Kirby Hensley, who founded ULC, had a distinct and unusual approach to Christian teachings.

A lot of ULC courses are based on his writings (transcribed, for he was illiterate), some of which are substantial. I have read some and they are cogent and very interesting, even if I don't agree with a deal of what he says.

[RA_Ph.D.]

Ummm, are you saying you are a wolf in sheep's clothing, RA? :D

Not at all; I don't practice as any kind of ordained minister, but I did become "legally" ordained in a matter of seconds with two of those groups. In the other case, I had to wait for snail mail. I am very suspicious of "instant" ordination as a real, spiritual process: that's why I made the comment. If anybody can just click on, no questions asked, and become instantly ordained, what's the difference between that and and an instant Ph.D. for $100 ? I don't see any. I have heard that some religious groups think all members are ordained to the ministry--maybe so, but I suspect some of this instant ordination thing is intended to give the "minister" special clergy privileges, social standing and tax breaks. Anyay, call me The Rev. Dr. 'cause I am. :D

[Robert J.]

I do find this troubling. Before my wife and I got married, she got very destructive "counseling" from the pastor of her Church, who later vanished. Who knows what his qualfications really were and how many lives he really did ruin. I'm glad even at that young age we had minds of our own with sound judgement and took our own path which was the right path.

[RXI]

Note:

Wesley may have layed the foundations for the Methodist Church but he or his brother never left the Church of England.

Thank you,

RXI

[Jabbezzz]

I am very suspicious of "instant" ordination as a real, spiritual process: that's why I made the comment.

Your suspicion is legitimate! Just kidding about the wolf......... :lol:

[Jimmy Clifton]

Note:

Wesley may have layed the foundations for the Methodist Church but he or his brother never left the Church of England.

Thank you,

RXI

True, the Wesleys wanted their Methodist Societies to function within the Church of England. Bottom line, however, they deviated from the Church of England just like many who found, establish, or lay foundations of a new church, do.

Kirby Hensley never left the Baptists when he founded the Universal Life Church, Benjamin Covington never left the United Methodist Church when he founded the Missionary Church International. etc.

But, like Martin Luther, they were responsible for the creation of new churches, denominations, organizations, etc.

[Jimmy Clifton]

It is worth remembering that you can go through a lot - but not all - of the ordination process online in some churches.

The Six Principle Baptists are a serious and well-established group, but everything in their ordination process seems to be electronic. If there is a personal interview at the end, I can't find mention of it on their website:

http://spbaptist.tripod.com/

Official site is www.baptists.web.com

Look here (http://web.archive.org/web/19981203015127/http://www.stony-lane-baptist.org/) for the site of the last original SPB church, now independent, before the original denomination folded.

[Jimmy Clifton]

I do find this troubling. Before my wife and I got married, she got very destructive "counseling" from the pastor of her Church, who later vanished. Who knows what his qualfications really were and how many lives he really did ruin. I'm glad even at that young age we had minds of our own with sound judgement and took our own path which was the right path.


Don't forget that dangerous counseling also exists within the realms of professions whose members are graduates of accredited schools. Look at this psychiatrist, a Harvard graduate, and how her shoddy therapy caused the suicide of one of her patients.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0671796216/104-5967946-5228720

[Jabbezzz]

Kirby Hensley never left the Baptists when he founded the Universal Life Church.

Does this suggest that the Southern Baptist Convention, or Baptists in general, accept the ULC PhD as a legitimate credential?

[J]

Does this suggest that the Southern Baptist Convention, or Baptists in general, accept the ULC PhD as a legitimate credential?

And, indeed, that ULC ministers can claim to be in apostolic succession :o

[J]

Official site is www.baptists.web.com

But that site is just a redirect from the one I posted - the content is identical.

Look here (http://web.archive.org/web/19981203015127/http://www.stony-lane-baptist.org/) for the site of the last original SPB church, now independent, before the original denomination folded.

Very interesting - thanks for posting this. The SPB as now constituted is a recent revival of the original tradition, albeit one initiated by Baptist ministers.

[Jimmy Clifton]

Does this suggest that the Southern Baptist Convention, or Baptists in general, accept the ULC PhD as a legitimate credential?

I seriously doubt it.

[Robert J.]

I understand the poster's intent is to warn the public against a seemingly bad guy which he/she substantiated with posted links. Unfortunately, Degreeboard.com cannot be housing people's personal information and is a Violation of our Terms of Service

Please refrain in future posts of revealing people's address, telephone number etc.

Thank you.