KWU Questions #1 and #2 Discussions.

[Robert J.]

Use this thread to comment/debate on responses to Questions #1 and #2. Both the participant and degreeboard.com staff will monitor this thread and possibly incorporate your responses into our follow-up questions or their own future responses.

[Robert J.]

ok folks, we're open for business...

[Dave Hayden]

Let me start

K-W is widely reported BY ITS STUDENTS to only require 5-6 classes for a Bachelors degree. Can K-W give the names of any students who have been required to take more? i.e. 10, 20, or? Thanks.

[plcscott]

Comments on #1.
For instance, we have invested more than $500,000 in Blackboard, the premiere online learning management system. In fact, we were among the early adopters of Blackboard, and Blackboard has proudly pointed to KWU as an example of a successful, comprehensive implementation of its system. In addition, we invest $30,000 each year to provide all our students access to the Jones eGlobal online library. We were also among the first universities anywhere to adopt the use of the Turnitin.com service which ensures that all student papers adhere to high standards of originality and proper academic citations.

The courses at KWU have no assignments, no lectures, no quizzes, and no required contact with an instructor. KWU basically tells a student which textbook to buy, gives a small sample practice exam, and then requires the student to take one timed open book exam that covers the entire book. So, what is the real benefit of the above? Is KWU planning on changing the courses in order to utilize these tools? Shouldn't the instructors just be called tutors since students only have contact with an instructor when they need tutorial assistance?

Our faculty teach at many of the most prestigious universities throughout the U.S. Eighty percent have Ph.D.'s, the balance Master's degrees, all from accredited universities, all of which amply exceeds our licensure requirements.

This raises a significant question. KWU will hire someone with an accredited undergraduate and master's degree, but will not hire a KWU graduate even if the graduate has accredited undergraduate, and master's degrees. So, if someone was qualified before to be employed by KWU then why are they disqualified afterwards? What does this say about the acceptance of KWU degrees if the school itself will not hire its own graduates?

Faculty are actively involved in developing and updating course material and the choice of texts for their courses, and in most cases, their course content and texts closely mirror the courses they teach at their traditional universities. Whenever a new edition of a course text is published, the faculty must review and, as appropriate, revise the course. The KWU Core Faculty Team, and our Chancellor, are responsible for maintaining the high quality of our courses, including textbook and other instructional materials, course outlines, etc., as well as the quality of instruction.

It is great to have up to date textbooks, but there is no coursework. Is it not true that every course at KWU has only one open book exam that covers the entire course? What are the other instructional materials? Why is there so many exam challenges, and problems with exams?

[plcscott]

In addition, it's worth noting that there are various ways in which to illustrate that our programs are as demanding as anywhere else. First, our graduation rate is virtually identical to the national average of traditional universities. Second, students' course grades fall on bell curves comparable to traditional universites, such that a minor percentage receive A's, and a few in fact don't pass and must re-take courses. Third, a sizable percentage of students' final paper proposals are rejected at least once, and their final papers are often returned by faculty advisors with guidance as to how the papers must meet appropriate academic standards.

How much do you attribute to people learning about some of the negative traits of KWU in the media and elsewhere to the low graduation rate? For instance, I know of some that had completed all of their work for a PhD that withdrew because of the negative reputation that KWU has developed.

Mr. Gering, it has been written that KWU is working to attain accreditation here (http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2005/01/01/news/wyoming/33d1a843fd0835ee87256f7b0078d115.txt) and here. (http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2004/11/19/news/wyoming/6f93244723f8188587256f51000f23cf.txt)

From the first article:
Currently 12 post-secondary institutions are licensed through the
state. Only one, WyoTech in Laramie, is accredited, although Kennedy-
Western University is working to attain accreditation. emphasis added.

From the second article:
But David Gering, director of Corporate Communications for Kennedy-Western University, said later in a telephone interview that his institution is moving along in obtaining accreditation. emphasis added.

What specifically is KWU doing to attain accreditation, and with which accreditor?

[J]

This raises a significant question. KWU will hire someone with an accredited undergraduate and master's degree, but will not hire a KWU graduate even if the graduate has accredited undergraduate, and master's degrees. So, if someone was qualified before to be employed by KWU then why are they disqualified afterwards? What does this say about the acceptance of KWU degrees if the school itself will not hire its own graduates?

They aren't alone in that policy. Some religious schools have similar policies, and Fairfax, IIRC, certainly used to only hire those with RA degrees.

The usual argument is that since what the school is doing is to some extent non-traditional or experimental, it is important that those doing the awarding have unimpeachable credentials from established, traditional institutions. I don't agree with this myself, but there you go.

[Robert J.]

I don't want to comment too much at this early stage in the interview, but I will make a couple of observations that kind of struck out at me.

1. KWU, with almost 10,000 students appears to be much larger than I had thought (perhaps this was common knowledge but I didn't know this), their size I would imagine, with the exception of UoP, is probably the size of any other DL only school and really the size of any medium sized private college one might find in their area of residence.

2. Infrastructure: schools that are "not schools", simply do not have the infrastucture, meaning, a formal technology delivery system (blackboard), faculty, courseware, and a formal communication system via students, the school and instructors, an online e-library etc. Compare the not so sublte differences between say some Liberian schools to KWU, they seem to be a world apart.

3. I have noticed most schools with some controversey tend to shrivel up and die at the first point of exposure or when some heat gets put to their feet they get running. It appears that KWU is willing to fight at some level to get their message across and although the degree of the "ODA Win" might be debatable, there was some level of concession on the part of the ODA, something no other school can claim that I am aware of.

Keep in mind there are 12 questions total that were submitted and were agreed to be responded to, with as you can see, questions #3 and #4 I gave as a teaser are more focused and more direct in terms of the common questions one has about them, questions #4-#10 even more so.

Thanks for checking in.

[J]

1. KWU, with almost 10,000 students appears to be much larger than I had thought (perhaps this was common knowledge but I didn't know this), their size I would imagine, with the exception of UoP, is probably the size of any other DL only school and really the size of any medium sized private college one might find in their area of residence.

This also surprised me. I do note, out of interest, that in an article from last year (http://www.dailyiowan.com/news/2003/12/19/Opinions/Guest.Opinion-578045.shtml), American World University, which I'll guess is a close competitor to KWU claimed 12,000 students.

2. Infrastructure: schools that are "not schools", simply do not have the infrastucture, meaning, a formal technology delivery system (blackboard), faculty, courseware, and a formal communication system via students, the school and instructors, an online e-library etc. Compare the not so sublte differences between say some Liberian schools to KWU, they seem to be a world apart.

I think there are a couple of factors here. There are still some smaller secular and religiously-based schools that continue to function by correspondence, ie avoiding online provision other than using the web for marketing. I think the provision of open-source Moodle will change that in some cases, because it makes electronic means easily accessible at low/no cost, but there is still demand for a non-electronic learning system, particularly in retired people and other less computer-literate populations.

To some extent, I think the developments at KW, which I applaud, are the result of its size and profitability. But to me, an interesting comparison is with AWU, which I mentioned above. In two schools of apparently similar size, we see KW way further on in terms of what it can offer its students.

3. I have noticed most schools with some controversey tend to shrivel up and die at the first point of exposure or when some heat gets put to their feet they get running. It appears that KWU is willing to fight at some level to get their message across and although the degree of the "ODA Win" might be debatable, there was some level of concession on the part of the ODA, something no other school can claim that I am aware of.

I agree entirely with this. I would also claim that the KW result over ODA is a more profound victory than simply the surface terms of agreement. It destabilizes the ODA's modus operandi and paves the way for other schools to seek to achieve fairer and less opinion-based treatment.

[Dave Hayden]

I don't want to comment too much at this early stage in the interview, but I will make a couple of observations that kind of struck out at me.

1. KWU, with almost 10,000 students appears to be much larger than I had thought (perhaps this was common knowledge but I didn't know this), their size I would imagine, with the exception of UoP, is probably the size of any other DL only school and really the size of any medium sized private college one might find in their area of residence.

2. Infrastructure: schools that are "not schools", simply do not have the infrastucture, meaning, a formal technology delivery system (blackboard), faculty, courseware, and a formal communication system via students, the school and instructors, an online e-library etc. Compare the not so sublte differences between say some Liberian schools to KWU, they seem to be a world apart.

3. I have noticed most schools with some controversey tend to shrivel up and die at the first point of exposure or when some heat gets put to their feet they get running. It appears that KWU is willing to fight at some level to get their message across and although the degree of the "ODA Win" might be debatable, there was some level of concession on the part of the ODA, something no other school can claim that I am aware of.

Keep in mind there are 12 questions total that were submitted and were agreed to be responded to, with as you can see, questions #3 and #4 I gave as a teaser are more focused and more direct in terms of the common questions one has about them, questions #4-#10 even more so.

Thanks for checking in.


Hi Robert

Have you been a student at K-W or otherwise affliated with them? Thanks.

Dave

[Dave Hayden]

Hi Robert

Have you been a student at K-W or otherwise affliated with them? Thanks.

Dave

I am guessing the non-answer means yes?

Dave

[Robert J.]

I am guessing the non-answer means yes?

Dave

What an absurd and obnoxious conclusion Mr. Hayden.

I answer questions and review my own website on my time, not your imaginary time constraints, for you and they are unimportant to me.

I am afraid there is no Sherlock Holmes climax for you Mr. Hayden for the answer to your question(s) is a very sound "no and no".

However, thanks for entertaining the Staff all morning.

P.S. Stay on topic or stay away.

[Dave Hayden]

What an absurd and obnoxious conclusion Mr. Hayden.

I answer questions and review my own website on my time, not your imaginary time constraints, for you and they are unimportant to me.

I am afraid there is no Sherlock Holmes climax for you Mr. Hayden for the answer to your question(s) is a very sound "no and no".

However, thanks for entertaining the Staff all morning.

P.S. Stay on topic or stay away.


(Removed by Robert J.)

[Dave Hayden]

Asking a serious question in a reasonable tone and manner is playing games? You disparage me and then delete a reasonable response? That doesn't seem very equitable or fair. I am guessing you will delete this and ban me. Guess I'll live.

Dave

[Robert J.]

Asking a serious question in a reasonable tone and manner is playing games? You disparage me and then delete a reasonable response? That doesn't seem very equitable or fair. I am guessing you will delete this and ban me. Guess I'll live.

Dave


You guess right this time, I'm sure we'll live too.

[Redlyne Racer]

Props to Robert J and crew for this innovative interview series. You have taken the DL forum concept to new heights. Also major props for having the huevos to kick it off with a controversial figure.

Unfortunately some of the reactionaries don't appreciate your foresight. When their tired dogma fails they have nothing left but general rudeness and personal attacks. Again, all props for keeping the playing field level and clean of debris.