What "No Way" are you?

[Robert J.]

There is some rhetoric past and present about certain prescribed views on acceptability of a certain bottom levels of accreditation(s).

So what are you?

[Jimmy Clifton]

Don't like the options.

1. RA
2. NA
3. State approved/state licensed

[Robert J.]

Don't like the options.

1. RA
2. NA
3. State approved/state licensed

1. RA = RA Or No Way
2. NA = Accredited or No Way
3. State approved/state licensed = "Atleast CA Approved or No Way" or "Atleast Wyoming/Alabama License or No Way"

(because I see do a distinction between the two)

[Jabbezzz]

UCLA or No Way............................. :D

[RA_Ph.D.]

I think the essence of edcuational evaluation is a real faculty--I mean educated human beings who pass judgements on the quality and merit of the degree candidate's candidature. The degree may be granted honoris causa, jure dignitatis, by incorporation, for no further work than what has been previously offered, for exminations, for organized prior learning portfolios or by whatever other rational standards determined by the FACULTY; the real test, bottom line, is that competent professionals evaluate the candidate's learning and give their imprimatur for his standing within that academic entity by which he is applying to be degreed. Standards may vary within universities, between universites and around the world as to what standards apply to what types of degrees. My business, as an educated person, is to understand differing degree structures, their basic differences and to know another educated person when I encounter one. I surely do not need the degree police between me and another individual to do my personal work.

[J]

I think the essence of edcuational evaluation is a real faculty--I mean educated human beings who pass judgements on the quality and merit of the degree candidate's candidature. The degree may be granted honoris causa, jure dignitatis, by incorporation, for no further work than what has been previously offered, for exminations, for organized prior learning portfolios or by whatever other rational standards determined by the FACULTY; the real test, bottom line, is that competent professionals evaluate the candidate's learning and give their imprimatur for his standing within that academic entity by which he is applying to be degreed. Standards may vary within universities, between universites and around the world as to what standards apply to what types of degrees. My business, as an educated person, is to understand differing degree structures, their basic differences and to know another educated person when I encounter one. I surely do not need the degree police between me and another individual to do my personal work.

Thank you, Doc, for an insightful post that I agree with 100%.

[sal]

I could not agree with you more on that, Doc RA_Ph.D. We must have some academic freedom. Let's not try to impose ones' rights and believes on the rest of us here. Let us be the judge please.

[mattie]

There is no "Anyway" or NO WAY. Even the six accreditors in the US do not agree on criteria.

And each country certainly has the right to establish their own standards. No organization from any country is forced to accept any degree, but when States start labeling schools as "degree mulls", and even worse only the black African ones as "fakes" and "scams", that is were I think all reason has gone out the door.

There are many fine schools that are not accredited.

There are many individuals with higher and more valuable education than any Ivy League degree holder.

There are different cultures in every country and in every society within those countries. Is not education in those areas of any value? Must those schools be labeled fake, bogus, scams, degree mils? Must anyone who defends such an ideas be called a "foaming mouth cave *****" as the Oregon government official labels such daring individuals?

Not everyone wants or needs to be a cookie-cutter MBA from a RA university in the US.

The lists should be limited to schools that State WILL accept for their government's jobs. Anything else can be case by case.

The States have no business doing anything else when it comes to making a list of what they shall decide to accept.
Everything else is way over the line.

But, Alan's is the ONLY one that uses such horrendous terminology and labels.

NONE of the other State lists contain outbursts, accusations and other obvious signs of hatred.

[James Grey]

Thank you, Doc, for an insightful post that I agree with 100%.


Well, on reflection I don't. I know what you both mean, but just for a moment, consider how many degree mills there are out there with genuine faculty from RA institutions.

[Robert J.]

Well, on reflection I don't. I know what you both mean, but just for a moment, consider how many degree mills there are out there with genuine faculty from RA institutions.

This is very true Peter. Even Saint Regis had a few faculty members with legit RA credentials, but this made no difference as they were just show.

[James Grey]

This is very true Peter. Even Saint Regis had a few faculty members with legit RA credentials, but this made no difference as they were just show.

I posted the following under the 'Adam Smith University' heading, but KR - does that stand for King Rat? - did a ** at me and the discussion degenerated into what I no longer have part it.

So this what I said about education, and I think it sort of its in here.

Education would be one of the most complex issues around today, but its complexity is ignored or misunderstood by many or most. This is due largely to [a] people prefer it that way as they they can profit from the grey areas either as pseudo students or crooked business operators, [b] the general public is very 'ignorant' as are HR departments, [c] 'KR' type responses and reactions that block out any discussion and immediately use the red herring approach as they have their own agendas whatever they may be, [d] people are unable or unwilling to discuss education per se.

It gets back to the question of what education really is, and where these matters should/can be discussed. I was always of the opinion that there was a good deal of common ground between the moderate figures at each of the discussion boards. It is those at the extreme edge who cause the atmosphere of fear and suspicion where in fact there should be a degree of objectivity. Most of those who care about this area are aware that the issues are not as black and white as some would like to paint them. Just as this issue hopefully attracts those who can discuss opposing views in a civilised manner, it has clearly attracts some who view it as an “electronic fight club” and that will unfortunately remove from the arena those who find such antics at the least unpalatable. I have “retired” from all that now, and am debating whether I bother being here now or not.

We have the RA or no way factions and splinter groups all puffing up their chests saying my degree is better than yours - what really is the point of this? A simple example of the falacy of this is the backet/degree creep at Ivy League universities where people are all getting the highest marks, and some even over 100%??? ... and people then will sit by and criticise any genuine attempt at real and meaningful education at a non RA establishment? Whilst many of us tire of the never ending tirade and mass debate, we are at the same time, intrigued, fascinated and besotted by the whole ugly affair. Is it learning for learning’s sake, or letters and title??

There are those who are wanting to create an alternative establishment in which their values predominate, and are being denied by the conventional academic establishment. Effectively this is a direct outreach from the Sixties counter-culture. The particular thread of the non-traditional movement that interests many of us – the Columbia Pacific/Greenwich/Sierra-Summit schools –has a strong individualistic and libertarian bias and an emphasis on empowerment, which challenges what I see as the predominantly socialist or neo-socialist hegemony within the mainstream Australian/UK/US education systems. I have been following this area since 1961, well before Bear pubished his first book, and have been very conscious of the benefits/enlightenment of experimental education by such as Carl Rogers in this area [refer to his comments in 'Freedom to Learn' at Cal Western with doctoral students].

When we first encountered the phenomenon of degree snobbery – which of course is far from confined to DL – we observed in particular that each person who participates in it draws the line immediately beneath his own feet. There is also a strong sense of those who climb the ladder pulling it up behind them –a friend of mine who has recently gone from an unaccredited BA to an accredited MA, for example, is now very much more hostile to unaccredited schools than was the case previously.

At the turn of the twentieth-century in Britain, before the era when many discliplines were studied within the university system and qualifications consisted of diplomas from private colleges and examinations by professional societies/associations, the term used was not taking one’s diploma, but “taking one’s letters”, which were then cited in a long string on nameplates etc. And then, of course, as soon as universities started awarding degrees in these areas, the professional associations made degree entry mandatory to “maintain standards”, which it did largely by knocking the competing non-university sector. Many top institutions simply went out of business. I currently tutor for one that escaped this demise and is still alive from 1874, but a mere shadow of its former self. The courses today are so deficient that the basic skills are often not addressed, and a post graduate is required to attain skills that we acquired at the start of our professional courses. A group of us currently are attempting to get educational institutions to see WHY the present teachers can't teach. Will it ever end? I suspect not. The chief battle that goes on appears on the surface to be between and about individuals, but in reality it is between and about institutions that compete for the same markets. And the counter-battle is raised by those who argue that education is not the preserve of institutions to control in the first place.

I am one of many who have taken some qualifications for the sake of education and interest with the knowledge that they were not going to be of direct use to any future career - such as my PhD from UIL. Some people fail to understand this and someone elsewhere stated without qualification that my non RA degree wrote me off academically. However, there is an appeal in many minds towards being a part of institutions that represent values that we want to speak up for – notably freedom of choice in education and the non-traditional definition that I cited earlier – as well as a satisfaction at achieving a qualification that is largely a matter of self-fulfilment for us. To me UIL is one of these.

I would say that it is almost definite that I will continue studying via DL in the future in different disciplines that interest me. I also think it is likely that, out of personal conviction, I will continue to seek out schools for the sake of their view of education rather than necessarily for the utility of their credentials in the workplace (or, alternatively, as I have done in the past, seek out areas of the workplace in which the principles of non-state, non-traditional education are embraced).

Generally speaking - and perhaps this might come as a surprise - I find postnominal letters a bore. I rarely use them in my correspondence or offline resumé. On several occasions in the past I have also seriously considered abandoning my use of earned degrees entirely – all of them, not just the non-traditional ones – in a stand against “degree creep”. That thought still comes back to me now and again. I come from an era when we had to learn on the job as we studied, and that apprenticeship in my case in Accountancy and Engineering, is what I rely on today when I am given an assignment to retrain todays teachers and academics, in what their sujects are about and how to teach them to the new generation. And do I have the 'degrees' that entitle me to do this? NO - I have neither an Accountancy nor an Engineering first degree, but am I 'qualified'? You go figure that one out ...

[mcdirector]

I'm not an RA only. I happen to like NA very, very much. What I've found is that if I teach in accredited secondary schools, accreditation goes a long way to ensure that any degree I get will be accepted where ever I go. (I'm not a big risk taker here, although I have been known to take a few here and there. Like marrying my husband after only knowing him for 10 weeks.) Maybe I'm shallow because I want to ensure that any education I get will be recognized by my employers. Maybe one day it won't matter to me, but right now it does.

Accrediting agencies have a list of non accredited schools that they will accept either courses or degrees from, but you have to call the accrediting agency and ask on each individual school in which you are interested. This is a pain. In ACSI schools there are a few Bob Jones and Pensecola grads. I'm sure I'd find other such schools if I started asking.

I don't care where anyone else gets any degree from (unless it's a mill of course). I have felt a bit pounced on (not here) for saying that an accredited degree has greater acceptance. I do find it a bit odd when someone decides to go with an obscure school that his/her need to virtually scream (at times) that the degree is valid and accepted and was just as rigorous as any other. OK, fine. Me saying that I personally prefer accreditation doesn't mean I think it wasn't. I'm an educator and thrilled when anyone pursues further education.

I have at times been tempted to print my own though. There are some really fine papers and embossers out there and I've always wanted to be called Dr. Bitsy ;)

[Rector]

What the good doctor said with a little twist.

How about faculty as veteran employee such as chief researcher or scientist, engineer or medical doctor, what I'm talking about is learning from people, coworkers and bosses at work. You get assessment and your output results are evaluated. You also get training in a classroom and practical setting's.

So why can't an assessment body qualify what one studied from prominent professionals at work?

I see WGU is competence based and I applaud to their approach, its holistic approach, they include vendor industry certifications in their degree programs, they have 6 regional Accreditation and DETC- National accreditation.

I'm surrounded by capable Project Managers, Managers, IT Experts and novices, I produce documentation, design documents, functional specs, functional requirements, reports etc, If I start counting all the professional activity including scientific activity then its UNIVERSITY of THE WORK PLACE.

Then wen we take care of our family, educate our children, budget our finances, building home projects, maintaining vehicles etc.

What an awesome UNIVERSITY of LIFE EXPERIENCE

:-)

Rector

[morleyl]

While I think an non-accredited school can be genuine, I do think that there should be some minimum standards to allow a university to be legal. At least they should be required to have qualified and verified faculty. That could help to keep the standard at a certain point at minimum.

Once you have that minimum then maybe people would accept assessment type routes. If its open ended, then its going to be difficult to get acceptance.

[Jay1]

Why should I care where a person gets needful information from? If it's what they want, it's their business not mine. It only becomes my business if they want something from me or if I need or want something from them. I find that most people usually do what they want and could care less what others think or want.

But as to an opinion:

I would think it good if schools are legal and offer learning at a level that is useful to students. Some may want more and others less, and what I think about what they should be doing is pointless in almost all cases. They really don't care what you or I think about the car they drive, home they live in, person they marry, or, believe it or not, college they choose. People will do as they will, whatever the reasons.

"We treat advisers as we treat doctors, we do as we damed well please as soon as their backs are turned."
---Samuel Johnson

[Timothy Jensen]

While I think an non-accredited school can be genuine, I do think that there should be some minimum standards to allow a university to be legal. At least they should be required to have qualified and verified faculty. That could help to keep the standard at a certain point at minimum.

Once you have that minimum then maybe people would accept assessment type routes. If its open ended, then its going to be difficult to get acceptance.

... and we get back into the argument about external accountability which creates wars, divides discussion groups and turns rational people into irrational apologists either way.

I am glad that it is America's problem as it fits in well with the passionate never ending arguments of war/no war, Iraq/no Iraq, Bush/bushfire, morality/immorality/ammorality, Democrat/Republican ...:crazy2:

[morleyl]

... and we get back into the argument about external accountability which creates wars, divides discussion groups and turns rational people into irrational apologists either way.

I am glad that it is America's problem as it fits in well with the passionate never ending arguments of war/no war, Iraq/no Iraq, Bush/bushfire, morality/immorality/ammorality, Democrat/Republican ...:crazy2:

I am not to too much debating nowadays. All I am saying is that once you offer service to the public, accountability of some form is required. Where I am not debating is what is the best one.

The whole issue of RA versus NA is already closed regardless of where you on the fence. Most of the well known schools are RA so therefore a natural inclination to say RA is better.

[Elrond]

Maybe this poll needs to be redone, considering the changes in Wyoming's laws requiring accreditation. The Wyoming registered schools of higher education are all making progress towards accreditation. At least one school that is not willing to seek accreditation has moved out of Wyoming.

[Jay1]

It is also a natural inclination to run with the pack. That works, if the pack has all the answers, which it rarely would. RA isn't one particular thing, it is many. It ranges from the worst, 4th tier, to some excellent schools, 1st tier. One can't simply say RA, as if it all means the same thing. If it did a Yale degree would be no better than the worst RA schools, and I don't think Yale graduates would agree with that idea. Some RA schools are better than most Nationally Accredited schools and some aren't. People use one school at a time, not by the bunch. If a Nationally Accredited school does all that is needed, doing it differently would be pointless.

I think it fair to say that some of the regulars at the various DL forums have agreed with each other that RA is everything, even if it does mean the worst of the 4th tier DL schools, but that hardly makes it so. Since there are other regulars who disagree. Myself being one. Any school that meets the needs of a student has done all that is required. That school can be RA/NA/State Approved or Unapproved. It just has to do what the student needs and wants.

[Timothy Jensen]

It is also a natural inclination to run with the pack. That works, if the pack has all the answers, which it rarely would. RA isn't one particular thing, it is many. It ranges from the worst, 4th tier, to some excellent schools, 1st tier. One can't simply say RA, as if it all means the same thing. If it did a Yale degree would be no better than the worst RA schools, and I don't think Yale graduates would agree with that idea. Some RA schools are better than most Nationally Accredited schools and some aren't. People use one school at a time, not by the bunch. If a Nationally Accredited school does all that is needed, doing it differently would be pointless.

I think it fair to say that some of the regulars at the various DL forums have agreed with each other that RA is everything, even if it does mean the worst of the 4th tier DL schools, but that hardly makes it so. Since there are other regulars who disagree. Myself being one. Any school that meets the needs of a student has done all that is required. That school can be RA/NA/State Approved or Unapproved. It just has to do what the student needs and wants.

You have stated as many have before you and many will in the future that "...any school that meets the needs of a student has done all that is required. That school can be RA/NA/State Approved or Unapproved. It just has to do what the student needs and wants..."

There is nothing at all wrong with that statement, but it does have severe restrictions - "...the needs of a student..." and "...what the student needs and wants...". So this presumes that there are no stakeholders or interested parties outside of the individual student.

Fine.

However, I would suspect that would be the smallest grouping of students seeking degrees - those who are doing it for themselves alone and will never have a need to 'use' this degree in any sense in any extended environment.

The person has a BS or an MA or a PhD, and that person will NEVER be tempted to use that degree in any way in any environment where a regular/accredited degree is welcomed or sought?

A realistic assumption?

[morleyl]

The concept of a tiered system is flawed if its not purely based on quality. How do you define quality?

RA will be the preferred accreditation for a long time actually. Of course NA is acceptable but it all comes down to marketing. Most NA schools are 100% DL and the market still prefers B&M schools in lots of cases even when its a DL program.

If some of the well known schools like Stanford and Harvard get accredited with NA then that may improve the credibility.

[Jay1]

You have stated as many have before you and many will in the future that "...any school that meets the needs of a student has done all that is required. That school can be RA/NA/State Approved or Unapproved. It just has to do what the student needs and wants..."

There is nothing at all wrong with that statement, but it does have severe restrictions - "...the needs of a student..." and "...what the student needs and wants...". So this presumes that there are no stakeholders or interested parties outside of the individual student.

Fine.

However, I would suspect that would be the smallest grouping of students seeking degrees - those who are doing it for themselves alone and will never have a need to 'use' this degree in any sense in any extended environment.

The person has a BS or an MA or a PhD, and that person will NEVER be tempted to use that degree in any way in any environment where a regular/accredited degree is welcomed or sought?

A realistic assumption?

According to the Douglas dissertation....page 137... 96% of HRMs said they saw state approved schools as at least acceptable to very acceptable, and only 1.5% said they would not accept state approved degrees.

If people with these degrees are not using them it would be by choice. I have two and have always listed them. I can't imagine that HRMs have the slightest idea what a CCU-Excelsior-Pacific Western-Greenwich University are. I have tried asking friends about John Bear, RA, NA, State Approved and other topics having to do with DL discussion and have found them uninformed and uncaring. To them the small unheard of colleges are just that unknown. That is why the majority of HRMs in the Douglas survery preferred Columbia State University, it sounded better.

When a box stacker leaves Wal-Mart and applies for a managers position at Dollar General with a (TESC / CCU / Century University) degree, he is interviewed by someone who has never heard of the lot of them. If asked the difference between the schools about 98% of HRMs hiring for lower to mid level jobs would have no idea about these things we discuss daily, nor would they care to.

State Approved degrees when mixed with a decent resume and work experience work for middle level jobs and down just fine. Now for CEOs and such, probably they do lose some punch, but then we start getting the big boys from the elite schools at this point. And then TESC and Union start to slide also.

I have never seen any surveys or research studies that show that state licensed schools don't work well, only opinions that they don't. The Douglas dissertation has shown that state approved has meaning for HRMs. For some a lot of meaning for others less, it varies.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Most NA schools are 100% DL and the market still prefers B&M schools in lots of cases even when its a DL program.




To clear up a misconception. Most NA schools are not 100% DL. Isn't ACICS the largest accreditor of all? It has minimal DL. ACICS accredits maybe 10 or more times the schools of DETC.

[Jay1]

Perhaps it is more accurate to say that well known B&M schools that offer DL degree programs provide degrees to students that have a little more usability and acceptance than degrees from DL only schools that are mostly unknown. Of course it is also very likely that the HRMs would not know that the degree from the B&M school was via DL. It is likely this is the real reason these degrees would be more acceptable, ignorance, hey, as long as it works. :o

[Jay1]

Who are the People using the DL schools and what are their Goals?
It is said they will not be teaching at the different universities if they obtain State Approved or Nationally Accredited degrees. It is said they will not be considered for the upper echelon positions with degrees from CCU/Columbia Southern University and others.......etc.

But I wonder just how often that is the purpose of the degrees and if degrees from such as TESC and Excelsior are that much more likely to raise one from way down at the bottom (economically) to the mountain top, or do the people choosing such colleges really intend that usage? Perhaps the normal goal is more about moderate improvement, about opening doors wider. Getting a chance to rise a little higher up the ladder. Maybe they don't really expect to teach at Harvard with CCU degrees, or with TESC degrees for that matter. Maybe the people who are going to apply for jobs at Yale or for the position of CEO at General Motors go a different route.

"Eighty-five percent of WGU students are from underserved populations. Underserved populations are classified by WGU as either economically disadvantaged, rural, first generation college student, Hispanic, African American, Native American, or a combination of two or more of these categories. The average age of students is 37; most (77 percent) are female. Most (85 percent) are currently employed, the large majority of them full-time."
--Western Governors University--11/1/06

These are working class people, for the most part. A CCU degree would meet almost all the needs any might ever encounter. For the rest, probably a very small percentage, they would probably be best advised to go to B&M schools. It may be nice to think that one can get two or three of the (rapid) degrees and all the doors swing wide open, but I have not seen that.

[Dennis Ruhl]

As DETC schools start issuing accredited doctorates, assuming the price is right, I am sure you will start seeing a whack of them teaching at RA schools topping up an RA masters. Price is Right? - remember to have your pet spayed or neutered.

Distance education is all about serving the underserved. I believe that the then unaccredited CCU said the average age of their students was 38. I remember that they required significant experience to enter their programs, for the doctorate I think it was 8 years. I remember someone posting that as a wet behind the ears kid, CCU advised them to go to an accredited school. The system had failed most of their students and criticism of the students for attending really irked me.

CCU was and is so beautifully simple with cheap programs, one all inclusive fee, $100 monthly payments and no course deadlines. They removed all the reasons for not attending. They gave refunds to people and never had an active collections/legal department. You signed up for a program but if you quit you only paid for the courses you took.

[A-N]

.................................................. ............
CCU was and is so beautifully simple with cheap programs, one all inclusive fee, $100 monthly payments and no course deadlines. They removed all the reasons for not attending. They gave refunds to people and never had an active collections/legal department. You signed up for a program but if you quit you only paid for the courses you took.

That's one of the things that CCU does better and that's why, in my opinion, CCU is a favorable, affordable and reliable school for DL students who want a Nationally accredited degree.

[Jay1]

That's one of the things that CCU does better and that's why, in my opinion, CCU is a favorable, affordable and reliable school for DL students who want a Nationally accredited degree.

Well said!! If the shoe fits fine, and I believe CCU fits many, if not all people.

It has always been one of my favorite schools. They make it possible for many people to get degrees by being user friendly, just like Wal-Mart was, at one time. I think CCU still gives a damn, and in today's world, that is a bit different. If you like education in the traditional method, this school is a decent/good choice. IMO

[Buckwheat Wildebeest]

AS far as the poll goes, I have to stick with RA. If the rest of society was on board with the other bodies out there I would have no problem with NA etc.

However, NA does indeed pose limitations on what is possible with their degrees...groan.
Gavin

[Theodore Lamar Heiks]

I'll say whatever works for you or no way. Just be smart enough to know whether a given degree will serve your future needs before you enroll.

[thestumps]

What nobody seems to mention much around here is this. National Accredited DL schools may be the only possible route one can actually afford. Maybe this is the icing in the cake they need. Maybe they have a career and an Associates they took years ago, but never continued, and finally at their stage in life, its better to get a NA degree if they can afford one than an RA degree that is out of their reach. Iisn't an NA DEGREE better than NO DEGREE?

[Robert J.]

What nobody seems to mention much around here is this. National Accredited DL schools may be the only possible route one can actually afford. Maybe this is the icing in the cake they need. Maybe they have a career and an Associates they took years ago, but never continued, and finally at their stage in life, its better to get a NA degree if they can afford one than an RA degree that is out of their reach. Iisn't an NA DEGREE better than NO DEGREE?

Actually it has been discussed here and that isn't really a a valid argument for an NA degree anymore. You are stretching the cost envelope (good for you!) and just about every school that is turning up are actually RA schools with the exception of Ashworth which isn't too much cheaper than say COSC. And I don't believe there is any NA school that would've offered what you got for your Associates degree either. Heck, many online Community Colleges offer far far cheaper tuition than any NA school offering 100-200 level courses. Colordado Community College online is certainly one that comes to mind. I don't see too many NA schools offering courses cheaper than LSU/Louisiana State Univ.

Perhaps on the whole RA schools might be more than an NA and certainly they can be the most expensive, but there are many RA programs that are as cheap as NA programs if not cheaper. Depending on the field and method of course, and other interests of course.

[thestumps]

Another words, STAY CLEAR OF NA schools when you can get RA credits as cheap as LSU and others. Plus your'e right. I don't see any NA schools offering up to 90 credits for an Associates. Makes logical sense to me.

[scaredrain]

I think NA schools benefit those who dont want to get caught up in "student loan hell." Schools like Ashworth and Penn Foster allow a person to obtain an education without getting in debt and making low payments. Same for California Coast University. If I would of known about those options back then and of course Excelsior, I could be saving myself some student loan payments that I am making now myself!

Also schools like Ashworth and Penn Foster let you go at your own pace and you dont have to wait for the next semester to start, which can be anywhere from 8 weeks to 17 weeks in some cases. So I think as long as the NA schools such as those two, keep their formula = low prices, no student loan payments, being able to work at your own pace, then they will be around a long time.

The only time I think NA will no longer serve its purpose is if the RA schools start offering low payment plans and correspondence style learning greater than some already offer.

[scaredrain]

Another words, STAY CLEAR OF NA schools when you can get RA credits as cheap as LSU and others. Plus your'e right. I don't see any NA schools offering up to 90 credits for an Associates. Makes logical sense to me.

There are some NA schools that accept upwards to 90 semester credit hours:

Andrew Jackson University:
http://www.aju.edu/Admissions/admis_tuition.asp
http://btc.aju.edu/BSDegree_ManagementLeadership.asp

Columbia Southern University:

Columbia Southern University will transfer up to 75 percent of the courses of an undergraduate degree, according to their catalog. The school is NA.

Their bachelor degrees require 31 courses, so if they accept 75 percent for classes you already have, that means about 23 of the classes are waived, leaving you with 8 classes. Their tuition is 185.00 per semester credit hours, so the total would be around $1295.

http://www.columbiasouthern.edu/down...csu2007ed4.pdf - see page 8 regarding transfer information

http://www.columbiasouthern.edu/financial/index.asp

http://www.columbiasouthern.edu/programs/bsba_mgt.asp

[Hawk]

Agreed!

Both of these schools are excellent! Of course, their adjunct faculty is also awesome as well. ;)

[Robert J.]

There are some NA schools that accept upwards to 90 semester credit hours:

Andrew Jackson University:
http://www.aju.edu/Admissions/admis_tuition.asp
http://btc.aju.edu/BSDegree_ManagementLeadership.asp

Columbia Southern University:

Columbia Southern University will transfer up to 75 percent of the courses of an undergraduate degree, according to their catalog. The school is NA.

Their bachelor degrees require 31 courses, so if they accept 75 percent for classes you already have, that means about 23 of the classes are waived, leaving you with 8 classes. Their tuition is 185.00 per semester credit hours, so the total would be around $1295.

http://www.columbiasouthern.edu/down...csu2007ed4.pdf - see page 8 regarding transfer information

http://www.columbiasouthern.edu/financial/index.asp

http://www.columbiasouthern.edu/programs/bsba_mgt.asp

I am not sure your math is adding up.

75% or 90 units means 30 units to finish a degree or $185 * 30 = $5550, plus books, registration fees. I think you merely multiplied classes @ 8 * $185 which isn't a good number either. Also, 8 classes @ 3units each still falls short so I guess some classes are 4 units and not 3 units, but regardless, transferring in 90 units you are still paying over $6k with books and fees which takes you back to the "Big 3"
RA cost range.

[A-N]

Agreed!

Both of these schools are excellent! Of course, their adjunct faculty is also awesome as well. ;)

I may be "bias" too, but I like CCU better;). Both AJU and CSU are very good nationally accredited institutions. As an incentive, their adjunct faculty is impressive:cool:.

[scaredrain]

I am not sure your math is adding up.

75% or 90 units means 30 units to finish a degree or $185 * 30 = $5550, plus books, registration fees. I think you merely multiplied classes @ 8 * $185 which isn't a good number either. Also, 8 classes @ 3units each still falls short so I guess some classes are 4 units and not 3 units, but regardless, transferring in 90 units you are still paying over $6k with books and fees which takes you back to the "Big 3"
RA cost range.


Sorry about the math, I wasnt thinking, but with the payment plans this option is better than the Big 3 for some. The Big 3 which are excellent do demand alot of fees up front, which may not be feasible to all students.

[gimuli]

UCLA or No Way............................. :D

we're in the same boat!