Golden State School of Theology

[Jimmy Clifton]

Golden State School of Theology (http://www.goldenstate.edu) of Stockton, California offers degrees via distance learning.

The work is very stringent and rigorous. I earned an M.Div. in February of this year.

There were a few times my work was returned with remarks such as "Needs more depth...Explore further...Take it up a notch...Expand...Research some more...etc."

Thus, the work is challenging.

The school is unaccredited and has California exemption as a religious school.

If a degree from an unaccredited school will suffice for you, I highly recommend this school.

[pallen38]

About a year and a half ago, I 'applied' to GSST, after not being able to find any info about the program on discussion boards and getting no responses on degreeinfo or from an email to Dr. Bear and Dr. Walston. I was then given a couple of the study guides to complete (essentially, the study guide a collection of questions that need to be submitted as the work for the class, as well as the list of papers one must write for the class). I was concerned with the quality of the school at this point.

The work consists of a large number of questions for each class, but let me give you an example of some of the questions (these are actual questions from the study guides, as I still have them):

From the study guide on Mark:

12. This is the beginning of the Gospel of who?
14. Where did John baptize?
15. Who went out to see John?
16. Where were people baptized?
17. How did John dress?

From Luke:

23. What did Zechariah ask the angel?
24. What was the name of the angel?
25. Where did Gabriel stand and why had he been sent?

(I'm particularly amused that they ask the angel's name one question before giving away the answer)

All the questions from all the study guides I've seen (I have 18 of their courses) are like this, this is not just a selection of the really simple ones).

Here is another sample of work from the Luke study guide:
__________________________________________________ ____

MEMORY ASSIGNMENT

From any translation, MEMORIZE verses 1-20. This may seem like a burden, but you will discover the story will come to you IF you pray and ask God for assistance. The Holy Spirit will write these words on your heart. Indicate here that you have completed your memory work. (Paraphrasing is fine. You do not have to memorize the passage word for word.)

POWER BIBLE ASSIGNMENT
Open any three commentaries and research what they say bout the times encompassed in Luke 2:1-3. What people were involved, why did Mary and Joseph have to return to Bethlehem from Nazareth?

GRADUATE STUDENTS must write a paper of not less than two pages of the events surrounding the birth of Christ.

POST GRADUATE STUDENTS must write a paper of not less than three pages of the events surrounding the birth of Christ, citing a minimum of three Old Testament prophecies related to those events.
__________________________________________________ _

I was also dismayed that whether you're doing a BA, MDiv or PhD, the work is all the same (same questions, same books, same papers), the only thing differing is the number of pages and number of sources one must use in their papers.


Now, my questions are these:

1. Is this typical of distance education in general? This is the only description of work from a DE program that I've seen?

2. If not, is this typical of unaccredited DE?

4. If not, is GSST just not a good scool?

5. Or, am I misjudging GSST (probably a question for Jimmy as he has gone there).

I am not writing any of this to judge the school or anyone who's gone there, I was just expecting something a little more challenging.

Thanks!

Patrick Allen

[Jimmy Clifton]

About a year and a half ago, I 'applied' to GSST, after not being able to find any info about the program on discussion boards and getting no responses on degreeinfo or from an email to Dr. Bear and Dr. Walston. I was then given a couple of the study guides to complete (essentially, the study guide a collection of questions that need to be submitted as the work for the class, as well as the list of papers one must write for the class). I was concerned with the quality of the school at this point.

The work consists of a large number of questions for each class, but let me give you an example of some of the questions (these are actual questions from the study guides, as I still have them):

From the study guide on Mark:

12. This is the beginning of the Gospel of who?
14. Where did John baptize?
15. Who went out to see John?
16. Where were people baptized?
17. How did John dress?

From Luke:

23. What did Zechariah ask the angel?
24. What was the name of the angel?
25. Where did Gabriel stand and why had he been sent?

(I'm particularly amused that they ask the angel's name one question before giving away the answer)

All the questions from all the study guides I've seen (I have 18 of their courses) are like this, this is not just a selection of the really simple ones).

Here is another sample of work from the Luke study guide:
__________________________________________________ ____

MEMORY ASSIGNMENT

From any translation, MEMORIZE verses 1-20. This may seem like a burden, but you will discover the story will come to you IF you pray and ask God for assistance. The Holy Spirit will write these words on your heart. Indicate here that you have completed your memory work. (Paraphrasing is fine. You do not have to memorize the passage word for word.)

POWER BIBLE ASSIGNMENT
Open any three commentaries and research what they say bout the times encompassed in Luke 2:1-3. What people were involved, why did Mary and Joseph have to return to Bethlehem from Nazareth?

GRADUATE STUDENTS must write a paper of not less than two pages of the events surrounding the birth of Christ.

POST GRADUATE STUDENTS must write a paper of not less than three pages of the events surrounding the birth of Christ, citing a minimum of three Old Testament prophecies related to those events.
__________________________________________________ _

I was also dismayed that whether you're doing a BA, MDiv or PhD, the work is all the same (same questions, same books, same papers), the only thing differing is the number of pages and number of sources one must use in their papers.


Now, my questions are these:

1. Is this typical of distance education in general? This is the only description of work from a DE program that I've seen?

2. If not, is this typical of unaccredited DE?

4. If not, is GSST just not a good scool?

5. Or, am I misjudging GSST (probably a question for Jimmy as he has gone there).

I am not writing any of this to judge the school or anyone who's gone there, I was just expecting something a little more challenging.

Thanks!

Patrick Allen

I completed the M.Div. program at GSST. I have taken that designation out of my signature line for personal reasons. The study guides I received were far more advanced in the questions than the ones you present. Also, I had to write papers for each course, sometimes two or three, and they were always at least 10 pages long.

[J]

I completed the M.Div. program at GSST. I have taken that designation out of my signature line for personal reasons. The study guides I received were far more advanced in the questions than the ones you present. Also, I had to write papers for each course, sometimes two or three, and they were always at least 10 pages long.

It is possible that GSST has tightened up its offerings since Patrick requested materials from them a year and a half ago. That Jimmy found the experience of studying with them challenging and fulfilling, with his educational experience including accredited DL, speaks to the fact that this is not a cut-and-dried issue.

If I have time, I will make inquiries of them myself.

[Jabbezzz]

I have taken that designation out of my signature line for personal reasons.

Jimmy,

I notice you hold ThM and PhD degrees from Bethany, which is also unaccredited. Was the work you completed with GSST on par with your ThM work at Bethany?

[Jimmy Clifton]

Jimmy,

I notice you hold ThM and PhD degrees from Bethany, which is also unaccredited. Was the work you completed with GSST on par with your ThM work at Bethany?

The Th.M. was earned in 1984; the Ph.D., 1991. The GSST M.Div. was earned last year so comparisons might not be fair.

However, I will attempt. The Th.M. at Bethany required more intensity, more work, and more research. Remember, however, the computer and the Internet were not universally available then. GSST provides a CD with each course that is chock full of reference materials with URL's.

In regards to the Ph.D., it was much more comprehensive and in-depth and required much more research than the GSST M.Div. However, one would expect as much since the degree levels are not the same.

I would recommend GSST. I would just make sure any statements about impending accreditation are not misleading.

[Jabbezzz]

GSST provides a CD with each course that is chock full of reference materials with URL's...I would recommend GSST.

Thanks, Jimmy. You would recommend GSST, but have chosen to remove the GSST MDiv from your sig line. Is this because of GSST?

[Jimmy Clifton]

Thanks, Jimmy. You would recommend GSST, but have chosen to remove the GSST MDiv from your sig line. Is this because of GSST?

Jabbezzz, I removed the GSST MDiv from my sig line for several reasons. I don't think listing numerous unaccredited degrees (although legal, legitimate, and good schools) is a good idea.

Second, their "impending DETC accreditation" was not presented to me accurately. The only reason I enrolled was that I was told they had applied for DETC accreditation.

I would not have enrolled otherwise. I already had an unaccredited theological master's. Why would I need or want another?

[Jabbezzz]

Jabbezzz, I removed the GSST MDiv from my sig line for several reasons. I don't think listing numerous unaccredited degrees (although legal, legitimate, and good schools) is a good idea.

If the degrees are "legal, legitimate and good," why is it not a good idea to list them? Not trying to be argumentative, just curious.

[Jimmy Clifton]

If the degrees are "legal, legitimate and good," why is it not a good idea to list them? Not trying to be argumentative, just curious.

I cannot answer this. It's a good question, however. Perhaps I have acquiesed to those who frown on all unaccredited degrees, I don't know. I would probably say I have.

The real issue for me, however, with GSST, is the misleading DETC accreditation claims I received.

[North]

Hey Jimmy,

Curiously, I know someone else who removed them from his web site bio (now only includes accredited degrees). However, he had the same impression of them that you did (that the coursework was substantial). He holds three accredited degrees (including a doctorate) and is working on a DETC Masters from Cal Coast.

My own thought is that you already list unaccredited degrees and if GSST was substantial and you earned it then you might as well list it.

If I ever do the degree from Nations, I will probably list it with the note on my resume that it was unaccredited.

Good to have you moderating Jimmy. I have always enjoyed your contributions whether or not I agreed with you theology, etc.

North

[Jimmy Clifton]

Hey Jimmy,

Curiously, I know someone else who removed them from his web site bio (now only includes accredited degrees). However, he had the same impression of them that you did (that the coursework was substantial). He holds three accredited degrees (including a doctorate) and is working on a DETC Masters from Cal Coast.

My own thought is that you already list unaccredited degrees and if GSST was substantial and you earned it then you might as well list it.

If I ever do the degree from Nations, I will probably list it with the note on my resume that it was unaccredited.

Good to have you moderating Jimmy. I have always enjoyed your contributions whether or not I agreed with you theology, etc.

North

Hi North,

I think I know of whom you are speaking. I have been thinking about relisting the GSST M.Div. The work was substantial and my Greek and Hebrew, while not that great, were refreshed.

Thanks for your kind words regarding my moderating this forum. I have always enjoyed your posts also. You have been one of the very few that has never let personal feelings keep your posts from being fair, balanced, civil, and respectful.

You're a good "poster" role model. Take care, my friend!

[Jabbezzz]

Hi Jimmy,

I notice the GSST M.Div. has been restored to your sig line, both here and at DegreeInfo. Is this due to the ABHE affiliation?

Thanks,

[Jimmy Clifton]

Hi Jimmy,

I notice the GSST M.Div. has been restored to your sig line, both here and at DegreeInfo. Is this due to the ABHE affiliation?

Thanks,

Yes, and North's post.

[Jabbezzz]

Yes, and North's post.

If your degree program was substantive in its regimen of study, then by all means list it.

[Mark]

Jimmy, I recently noticed a reference to Golden State at a sight I had originally visited several years back. The exam questions pallen38 posted were the same type of format uses. I started their Life of Christ course, but felt it was more of a NavPress study than a college level course. Yesterday when I researched their history it stated they started as Golden Gate. A link from [U]Therapon Univerisity takes you to the same place. It is also the location for something called National Association of Christ-based Counselors. Have you researched them in the past? Are they legit? http://www.xcenteredcounseling.com/

[Jimmy Clifton]

Mark,

Let me check into this.