Regis University Sues St. Regis

[michael]

It appears that Regis University of Denver Colorado is suing St. Regis University. The have brought a lawsuit up against them in the State of Washington. The PDF is to large for the site so you may read it here (http://www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/pigeons/2004_12_06_Complaint_for_Trademark_Infringement.pd f)

[J]

michael, that is very interesting indeed.

If anyone should ask that old, old question "who controls SRU?" we now have an answer given in the document you cited:

Heidi Lorhan
Dixie Randock
Steve Randock
Kenneth Pearson

and (drum roll...) Richard J. Hoyer.

Change of ownership? I don't think so. No wonder they shut the SRU forum down :D

[Redlyne Racer]

These sorts of actions are not as easy to win as you might think. An example would be the action by John Fogerty, former Creedence Clearwater Revival frontman, against his former drummer and bass player to stop them from using the name "Creedence Clearwater Revisited."

He got a preliminary injunction, but it was overturned on appeal. The appellate court stated: "The evidence submitted by both parties convincingly demonstrates that the public was unlikely to be, and in fact was not confused about Fogerty's association with Revisited...The record contains no evidence that the American public actually was confused or led to believe that Fogerty was associated with Revisited. We therefore assign little weight to the evidence that at least one German and one Thai Fogerty fan was confused as to Fogerty's involvement in the Revisited tour." (http://members.tripod.com/riverising/Welcome/secondsemester97.html

The Regis/St. Regis case is in the Washington federal court, which is in the same Ninth Circuit where the Fogerty case was decided on appeal. If they aren't buying confusion between "Revival" and "Revisited" it could be a tough road to show confusion between "Regis" and "St. Regis."

[michael]

There is hope. Trinity College in Texas won their suite against Trinity College and University, so maybe Regis can win. I have noticed though that if you google Regis you get at least on hit for St. Regis.

Most likely all that will happen is that they will change names.

[Dennis Ruhl]

michael, that is very interesting indeed.

If anyone should ask that old, old question "who controls SRU?" we now have an answer given in the document you cited:

Heidi Lorhan
Dixie Randock
Steve Randock
Kenneth Pearson

and (drum roll...) Richard J. Hoyer.

Change of ownership? I don't think so. No wonder they shut the SRU forum down :D

Isn't the story that it was a non-profit organization based in Liberia? It's truly amazing that they haven't abandoned SRU. Perhaps it's because the more it gets criticized the more its supporters make claims of legitimacy. It has an amazing number of active supporters for a degree mill.

[J]

Further developments:

The SRU site http://saintregis.edu.lr has now had its front page replaced with a lengthy statement on the issue.

Here are some choice quotations from it:

Sadly, it has come to our attention that after an agreement made several years ago with the Jesuit Monks of Regis University of Colorado, and after many years of voluntarily posting at our website that St. Regis University is not connected in any way to any similarly named universities or colleges, that the Jesuit Monks of Regis University of Colorado are now making a complaint that St. Regis is infringing upon their name "Regis" University.

While is true that this longstanding notice was inadvertently left out by a webmaster or designer after a recent remodel of our website, it is also true that at no time did any Regis University official, student, applicant, etc or any other individual from any other similarity named entity ever once complain to St. Regis University of the missing notice nor has there been even one complaint or report of any confusion in names made by Regis University of Colorado or by any individual. Had anyone contacted us with a complaint that the notice had been removed in the new design it would have been replaced on the index page without hesitation, as it had been placed as originally agreed upon several years ago and had remained for years afterward.

It is also true that St. Regis University has never used any similar logo or trademark ever held by the Jesuit monks of Regis University or used their name or trademarks in any practices.

At no time has St. Regis University held itself out to be any US entity, and in fact is a Liberian university.

Contrary to their complaint, St. Regis University has never had any presence in Washington State, nor Colorado. St. Regis University, a non-US entity is located and incorporated in the Republic of Liberia. Our website has clearly states that in the case of ANY dispute the laws of Liberia shall prevail, as St. Regis University is a legally registered corporation in the Republic of Liberia.

and later:

We believe this complaint (and others) are being instigated by a group of individuals including a University of Illinois professor, an Oregon government official known for his admittedly non-researched and controversial list of online schools he labels as "mills" and "substandard", and a two writers capitalizing on the sale of books about online degrees. This group is well-known to us for their apparent hatred toward many nontraditional online universities, particularity those located in the African country of Liberia.

Contrary to the claims made by these cohorts and news story reporters (including one who admits publicly that he need not be truthful in his stories) St. Regis University has always been a legally operating entity and has never "sold" degrees or broken any laws. St. Regis University operates in full compliance with all laws and regulations of the Ministry of Education of The Republic of Liberia and is not a U.S. entity nor operating in the U.S.

Out of respect for the feelings and wishes of the Jesuit Monks at Regis University of Colorado, St. Regis University Liberia is voluntarily discontinuing the use of our legally registered name and moving voluntarily all programs, curriculum and services to another University until this matter is completely resolved.

We pray that the Jesuit Monks at Regis University of Colorado will remember our acts of sincerity, cooperation and respect of their wishes since our first contact with them years ago, and that again our immediate cooperation and willingness to end any conflict will help to bring this matter to closure.

That last paragraph reads like one heck of a white flag. Still, this is goodbye SRU, at least in its currently-known form.

[Len]

Further developments:

The SRU site http://saintregis.edu.lr has now had its front page replaced with a lengthy statement on the issue.

Here are some choice quotations from it:

Sadly, it has come to our attention that after an agreement made several years ago with the Jesuit Monks of Regis University of Colorado, and after many years of voluntarily posting at our website that St. Regis University is not connected in any way to any similarly named universities or colleges, that the Jesuit Monks of Regis University of Colorado are now making a complaint that St. Regis is infringing upon their name "Regis" University.

While is true that this longstanding notice was inadvertently left out by a webmaster or designer after a recent remodel of our website, it is also true that at no time did any Regis University official, student, applicant, etc or any other individual from any other similarity named entity ever once complain to St. Regis University of the missing notice nor has there been even one complaint or report of any confusion in names made by Regis University of Colorado or by any individual. Had anyone contacted us with a complaint that the notice had been removed in the new design it would have been replaced on the index page without hesitation, as it had been placed as originally agreed upon several years ago and had remained for years afterward.

It is also true that St. Regis University has never used any similar logo or trademark ever held by the Jesuit monks of Regis University or used their name or trademarks in any practices.

At no time has St. Regis University held itself out to be any US entity, and in fact is a Liberian university.

Contrary to their complaint, St. Regis University has never had any presence in Washington State, nor Colorado. St. Regis University, a non-US entity is located and incorporated in the Republic of Liberia. Our website has clearly states that in the case of ANY dispute the laws of Liberia shall prevail, as St. Regis University is a legally registered corporation in the Republic of Liberia.

and later:

We believe this complaint (and others) are being instigated by a group of individuals including a University of Illinois professor, an Oregon government official known for his admittedly non-researched and controversial list of online schools he labels as "mills" and "substandard", and a two writers capitalizing on the sale of books about online degrees. This group is well-known to us for their apparent hatred toward many nontraditional online universities, particularity those located in the African country of Liberia.

Contrary to the claims made by these cohorts and news story reporters (including one who admits publicly that he need not be truthful in his stories) St. Regis University has always been a legally operating entity and has never "sold" degrees or broken any laws. St. Regis University operates in full compliance with all laws and regulations of the Ministry of Education of The Republic of Liberia and is not a U.S. entity nor operating in the U.S.

Out of respect for the feelings and wishes of the Jesuit Monks at Regis University of Colorado, St. Regis University Liberia is voluntarily discontinuing the use of our legally registered name and moving voluntarily all programs, curriculum and services to another University until this matter is completely resolved.

We pray that the Jesuit Monks at Regis University of Colorado will remember our acts of sincerity, cooperation and respect of their wishes since our first contact with them years ago, and that again our immediate cooperation and willingness to end any conflict will help to bring this matter to closure.

That last paragraph reads like one heck of a white flag. Still, this is goodbye SRU, at least in its currently-known form.

Oh, rubbish! This lawsuit stinks of Gollin and all info that he has "supplied" and quotes and brings up historical "issues" that are not even relevant!!! Go and read the full lawsuit document, and you will see what I mean.

Jeez, I never thought these guys would try and stoop so low!! They obviously are hell bent on drowning SRU........I cannot see any clear-thinking member of law that would take this on!

Len.

[J]

Oh, rubbish! This lawsuit stinks of Gollin and all info that he has "supplied" and quotes and brings up historical "issues" that are not even relevant!!! Go and read the full lawsuit document, and you will see what I mean.

Jeez, I never thought these guys would try and stoop so low!! They obviously are hell bent on drowning SRU........I cannot see any clear-thinking member of law that would take this on!

Len.

Rest assured, Len, I have indeed read the full lawsuit. If by "rubbish" you mean what I quoted above, may I remind you that this comes from SRU (it is on their site) directly.

If what you say is so, I do not understand how SRU, with its confident assertions of legitimacy, has backed down even before the case has been heard. Seems like they are scared of going near a courtroom.

[dhfr]

Story from the AP: Internet-based school is phony, lawsuit says (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002116368_diploma11m.html)

[dhfr]

I think they should have switched to a new name before launching the current incarnation. IMHO, the "Saint Regis" name has been irretrievably tarnished ever the Gwinnett County teacher scandal.

[Ryan]

Here is a link to an article about Hoyer and the lawsuit from a newspaper in his area.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041212/NEWS01/412120322/1002/NEWS

In e-mails to the Democrat and Chronicle Friday, Hoyer indicated he has not been provost of St. Regis University since October 2002, and he disavowed any connection to the other St. Regis link cited in the suit.

[dhfr]

This version of the AP story has some more information on Randock: University accuses distance-learning program of being 'diploma mill' (http://www.tdn.com/articles/2004/12/12/biz/news02.txt)

[John D]

There is a serious problem with opinions expressed in this thread. Allegations in a lawsuit are taken as a priori true and valid before the competent court of law has a chance to judge the truthfullness or falsity of these allegations.

And, may I ask, how do you know that any of these allegations are true and accurate so that you can opine with such certainty? The only "authority" I can find that such opinions could be based on is Gollin, aka Galanga, the uncrowned king of another forum.

John D

[J]

Well, the normal response to such allegations would be to put up a robust defense. I see you doing that, but not SRU.

If the ownership of SRU is other than given in the lawsuit, I question why the names of SRU's actual owners have not been made public. If someone were wrongly accused in your place, the right thing to do would be to declare your ownership and exonerate them, wouldn't it? That is, unless you had something big to hide...or the people mentioned were actually the owners.

The evidence produced in the Regis suit so far is pretty strong - looking at the appendices. I saw some of it at the time it was available on the internet and I don't believe it is false. Whether it means what Regis says it means will depend on the court hearings. I think discovery will also be an interesting part of the suit.

Not everyone here posts at - or even reads - degreeinfo. But if galanga is wrong, I want to see a detailed rebuttal of the points he makes.

[John D]

Well, the normal response to such allegations would be to put up a robust defense. I see you doing that, but not SRU.

If the ownership of SRU is other than given in the lawsuit, I question why the names of SRU's actual owners have not been made public. If someone were wrongly accused in your place, the right thing to do would be to declare your ownership and exonerate them, wouldn't it? That is, unless you had something big to hide...or the people mentioned were actually the owners.

The evidence produced in the Regis suit so far is pretty strong - looking at the appendices. I saw some of it at the time it was available on the internet and I don't believe it is false. Whether it means what Regis says it means will depend on the court hearings. I think discovery will also be an interesting part of the suit.

Not everyone here posts at - or even reads - degreeinfo. But if galanga is wrong, I want to see a detailed rebuttal of the points he makes.

The lawsuit in question is frivolous and does not present any evidence whatsoever about its allegations. The so called evidence presented is based almost entirely on hearsay and gossip and the opinions of individuals who claim to be experts without any evidence of formal qualifications to support their supposed "expertise". Association of the individuals named in the suit with SRU can be easily proven and it has not been denied by the individuals concerned, but how is ownership going to be proven on the evidence presented? Through Gollin's IP tracings? This is ridiculous, that does not constitute evidence. People located in Pakistan and the U.K. are currently taking care of my website. Does that mean they are the owners of my school?

Also, I have given permission to people in the U.K. to open and manage an International Studies Center of my school in London. Does that mean they are owners or part owners of my school? They will simply use the name of my school and act under permission and authority given by me.

John D

[John D]

Not everyone here posts at - or even reads - degreeinfo. But if galanga is wrong, I want to see a detailed rebuttal of the points he makes.

I thought that in most civilized countries of the world a person is considered to be innocent until he or she is proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt and not the other way around. The onus is on Gallanga to prove his allegations and not on SRU to prove its innocense.

I also thought that public judgments and opinions referring to a case being heard or pending in a court of law are illegal and severely punished in most civilized and democratic countries. However, this does not appear to be the case any longer in the U.S.

John D

[J]

Association of the individuals named in the suit with SRU can be easily proven and it has not been denied by the individuals concerned, but how is ownership going to be proven on the evidence presented?

It doesn't need to be. The lawsuit wording is cleverer than you have given it credit for. It does not cite those individuals as owners of SRU, it says they have been doing business as SRU. Each defendant in turn is accused of tortious acts in the state of Washington that have damaged Regis University. That could be done as employees or owners or any other relationship you care to think of.

[J]

Not everyone here posts at - or even reads - degreeinfo. But if galanga is wrong, I want to see a detailed rebuttal of the points he makes.

I thought that in most civilized countries of the world a person is considered to be innocent until he or she is proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt and not the other way around. The onus is on Gallanga to prove his allegations and not on SRU to prove its innocense.

I also thought that public judgments and opinions referring to a case being heard or pending in a court of law are illegal and severely punished in most civilized and democratic countries. However, this does not appear to be the case any longer in the U.S.

John D

Let's get it in proportion.

Posts on a discussion forum are covered by free speech laws. Outside the world of DL, and occasionally within it, a whole host of hateful, defamatory and generally nasty content proliferates on the internet, and very little could be done about it even if one were to want to. To a large extent, the net remains a lawless domain. You can say whatever you like within reason - that is one of the things that is great about it.

Suing for libel is highly costly and requires that direct financial loss be proved in order to win damages. Most of the time it is simply not worth it, unless you are after proving a point of principle.

From the OJ case to Regis v SRU, comment on discussion forums about legal matters, particularly when they are discussed elsewhere, is a frequent stock in trade. I'm glad that that continues to be the case.

I think SRU could conduct a viable defense on the internet if it chose. It doesn't need to whine about who threw the first punch. What it does need to do is work out what its defense is and put it together with intellectual cogency. So far, that hasn't happened.

[John D]

It doesn't need to be. The lawsuit wording is cleverer than you have given it credit for. It does not cite those individuals as owners of SRU, it says they have been doing business as SRU. Each defendant in turn is accused of tortious acts in the state of Washington that have damaged Regis University. That could be done as employees or owners or any other relationship you care to think of

So, the bottom line is that this lawsuit cannot prove anything about SRU, but only about a number of specific individuals which is highly unlikely in my opinion. However, the lawsuit does include many charges against SRU itself as an entity. The accusations against these individuals for allegedly causing damage to Regis reputation seem to be based on those alleged charges against SRU itself and its alleged practices. This would open the way for a successful lawsuit from SRU itself against Regis.

John D

[John D]

Let's get it in proportion.

Posts on a discussion forum are covered by free speech laws. Outside the world of DL, and occasionally within it, a whole host of hateful, defamatory and generally nasty content proliferates on the internet, and very little could be done about it even if one were to want to. To a large extent, the net remains a lawless domain. You can say whatever you like within reason - that is one of the things that is great about it.

Suing for libel is highly costly and requires that direct financial loss be proved in order to win damages. Most of the time it is simply not worth it, unless you are after proving a point of principle.

From the OJ case to Regis v SRU, comment on discussion forums about legal matters, particularly when they are discussed elsewhere, is a frequent stock in trade. I'm glad that that continues to be the case.

I think SRU could conduct a viable defense on the internet if it chose. It doesn't need to whine about who threw the first punch. What it does need to do is work out what its defense is and put it together with intellectual cogency. So far, that hasn't happened.
__________________
Moderator
Degreeboard.com, Inc.
A Delaware Company

I'm referring mainly to press reports and not to forum discussions. Citizens reputations and the integrity of courts of law from external influences should be protected in a democratic country that cares for its citizens.

I can assure you that free speech in my country is much, much freer than in the U.S. and that includes the press. This has been confirmed by American media experts who surveyed freedom of the press in several countries, including the U.S. It has also been condemned as excessive and leading to anarchy by some people.

However, there are certain limits. A democratic and well-ordered society cannot allow unscrupulous journalists and reporters prey on its citizens.

John D

[J]

This would open the way for a successful lawsuit from SRU itself against Regis.

It might...if SRU had incorporated in the US.

[Robert J.]

They have updated their main website.

[michael]

I love how they put up links to a professor rating board.... Like information at one of those is even credible.... Their disclaimer is kinda funny too... What happens if I don't agree with it?

[Dennis Ruhl]

It might...if SRU had incorporated in the US.

It was "created by decree", remember, in 1984?



When Hoyer was in short pants?? Part of the wonderful fantasy.

[J]

Their front page now shows rather more cojones than previously.

I love the way they have picked up on some of the things said here. This is a gem:

St. Regis University of Liberia is not being sued by Regis University of Colorado.

How can they have temporarily moved their programs to another university, as stated? Only in the event that there is common ownership and operation, which they have denied in the past. What's the betting that that other university is Robertstown or James Monroe? (I wonder if you get to pick your choice?)

[J]

Their disclaimer is kinda funny too... What happens if I don't agree with it?

They sue you...wait a minute, no they don't. :lol:

[Robert J.]

Their front page now shows rather more cojones than previously.

I love the way they have picked up on some of the things said here. This is a gem:

St. Regis University of Liberia is not being sued by Regis University of Colorado.

How can they have temporarily moved their programs to another university, as stated? Only in the event that there is common ownership and operation, which they have denied in the past. What's the betting that that other university is Robertstown or James Monroe? (I wonder if you get to pick your choice?)

They might want to stay away from Robertstown University.
Regis University might have more for their lawsuit.

[J]

Now they're making threats:

Legal counsel is being sought to investigate the extent of damages caused to these innocent individuals, and possibly to St. Regis University of Liberia in preparation for the numerous individual suits and counter lawsuits and possibly individual and collective lawsuits against those who have falsely claimed that a lawsuit was brought against St. Regis University of Liberia by Regis University of Colorado AND against anyone falsely accusing St. Regis University of Liberia of "selling" or issuing "bogus" credentials.

Anyone publicly making such false claims is committing slander and/or libel.

What do we think of that, folks? :p

[Redlyne Racer]

Reminds me of the Doors' "Horse Latitudes." This would be the "legs furiously pumping" part, to be followed by "mute nostril agony" and then "sealed over." Or so we can hope.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Now they're making threats:

Legal counsel is being sought to investigate the extent of damages caused to these innocent individuals, and possibly to St. Regis University of Liberia in preparation for the numerous individual suits and counter lawsuits and possibly individual and collective lawsuits against those who have falsely claimed that a lawsuit was brought against St. Regis University of Liberia by Regis University of Colorado AND against anyone falsely accusing St. Regis University of Liberia of "selling" or issuing "bogus" credentials.

Anyone publicly making such false claims is committing slander and/or libel.

What do we think of that, folks? :p

Anyone who is concerned should copy all the old websites using the Wayback Machine. In the past there was less of a pretense as to what they were doing.

[Robert J.]

Not closed 100% but enough has been said until some next steps happen in the lawsuits, we will re-open as developments occur.