'Legit or Not' of the Week: California Coast University

[Robert J.]

As the winds of Distance Education change, so do schools and people's opinions of them. We shall post one school a week that may have been talked about frequently in the past to get the current opinion of them. The school may or may not be accredited. A simple Yes/No as of TODAY is all that is required and no debate is really wanted but you are free to comment on your opinion.

Our first "Legit of the Week" will be Cal Coast University of Santa Ana CA. A Currently Unaccredited CA school trying for DETC accredition with one failed attempt but still going at it.

[Jabbezzz]

Yes, CCU is a legitimate institution of higher learning........

[Bill Dayson]

I'm not sure how to answer this. I've never bothered to study Cal Coast because business schools aren't really my thing. Much of my information about CCU has come from reading other people's discussion board remarks, and that has left me with an opinion that's decidedly mixed.

It's operating legally. It offers a real educational program and doesn't just sell degrees. It has applied to DETC and has shown the willingness to make serious changes in order to qualify. That's all positive stuff.

On the other hand, Cal Coast has a reputation for graduate courses whose assignments consist of multiple choice exams and for DBAs without a dissertation requirement. I looked at a couple of years' CA Psych Board results a while back, and CCU students weren't as successful as those from some other CA-approved schools (like Ryokan). And Google searches don't turn up much evidence of scholarship associated with CCU.

But Cal Coast does seem to be improving. I understand that their graduate courses now require papers as well as the multiple choice exams. The DBA and psychology doctorates are being phased out, so those objections are now probably moot.

Bottom line: I'm gonna vote 'legit', but only provisionally.

This would be easier with more options. Perhaps:

Credible (I prefer that word to 'legit')
Credible, but with reservations
Undecided
Not-credible, but with reservations
Not-credible

If those were the choices, I would have voted for 'credible, but with reservations'.

[ray1212]

I am impressed with California Coast University. They have been in existence for 31 years and that is allot longer than many non distance RA universities. I believe they will receive DETC accreditation in January. I look forward to completing my MBA there.

Ray1212

[Robert J.]

This would be easier with more options. Perhaps:

Credible (I prefer that word to 'legit')
Credible, but with reservations
Undecided
Not-credible, but with reservations
Not-credible

If those were the choices, I would have voted for 'credible, but with reservations'.

Nope, simple. Thumbs up or thumbs down.

[James Grey]

I am impressed with California Coast University. They have been in existence for 31 years and that is allot longer than many non distance RA universities. I believe they will receive DETC accreditation in January. I look forward to completing my MBA there.

Ray1212
Personal opinion - they are soft content and assessment wise, and I wouldn't study with them recommend them to any staff or employ anyone based on a CCU degree. The rigour simply is not there.

Sorry, but there are plenty of other choices where the degree will evidence a quality of graduate.

[Jabbezzz]

Personal opinion

:o :o :o

[J]

:o :o :o

Yep - personal opinion is what we are all about here.

That and the straight dope on SRU, of course :D

[Jay2]

Straight Dope Quick and Sweet= SRU is a degreemill!!!

CCU= Ain't!!!

The poll shows what people of common sense always knew, CCU is real.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Personal opinion - they are soft content and assessment wise, and I wouldn't study with them recommend them to any staff or employ anyone based on a CCU degree. The rigour simply is not there.



It comes down to a balancing act involving cost of the program, which is cheap. The program is not a gimmee, you have to do the work which is time consuming. The are probably lots of RA schools that an MBA could be walk-through.

[Dennis Ruhl]

On the other hand, Cal Coast has a reputation for graduate courses whose assignments consist of multiple choice exams and for DBAs without a dissertation requirement. I looked at a couple of years' CA Psych Board results a while back, and CCU students weren't as successful as those from some other CA-approved schools (like Ryokan). And Google searches don't turn up much evidence of scholarship associated with CCU.



So the Easy Three also lack validity because they will award 100 % multiple choice degrees.

So are all doctorates that lack a dissertation invalid? Many traditional universities accept alternate projects instead of a dissertation.

[Jabbezzz]

are all doctorates that lack a dissertation invalid?

Nope, only the real ones............... :o :D

[James Grey]

So the Easy Three also lack validity because they will award 100 % multiple choice degrees.

So are all doctorates that lack a dissertation invalid? Many traditional universities accept alternate projects instead of a dissertation.

Again it is a matter of oninion. My MBA has the option of a single subject research topic through to one equal to 3 subjects, but they are optional. The course work is pretty solid and comprehensive - research and active learning papers PLUS proctored examinations in all 12 subjects. I have done enough research with 2 Australian masters degrees already so am just topping up my generalist areas with the MBA and not doing a dissertation of any kind. Anyway, it will be thematic and around 100,000 words plus exams - that will suffice.

[Geek]

I think I agree wth Peter, I have found MBA's for around $5000 that are accredited. So I don't see the point of even the existence of a Cal Coast, I mean what's so really special about them if you can get an accredited degree for the same price?

[James Grey]

It comes down to a balancing act involving cost of the program, which is cheap. The program is not a gimmee, you have to do the work which is time consuming. The are probably lots of RA schools that an MBA could be walk-through.

A very valid point. Before I commenced mine I looked at:

1. The number of units overall

2. Breakdown between foundation and advanced units

3. The lecture/tutorial time per unit - this varied a lot in terms of delivery from 2 hours a week over 6 weeks to 3 hours a week over 15 weeks! So the item 1 needs reconsidering in the light of this.

4. Requirement and size of a resarch project/dissertation

5. The assessment criteria per module.

6. Specialisations offered and content validity

I am doing mine at http://www.une.edu.au/febl/GSBA/index.htm. entirely by distance education. I have 6 units to go, and am doing them at a leisurely 1 unit per trimester and that needs about 20 hours a week. I will actually end up with 14 subjects on my transcript - tend to do that in most of my degrees.

The requirement is for 12 units and the research is optional and in reality required evidence of the ability to do it. I am doing an 18,000 word version - the mid size which roughly equates to an honours year undergraduate requirement out here. Virutally all of the units are assessed by 2 assignments of between 2,000 and 4,000 words each, and a 2 hour [usually closed book] proctored exam than you can do where you reside.

The cost to you guys is reasonable at $AUD18,000

You can check out our other offerings at www.mbaguide.com.au The UNE program is the largest DE MBA in Australia - they don't brag about it as they don't have to brag about anything - the graduates do that.

[J]

Thanks a lot for this, Peter.

Looks like a very interesting option for an MBA.

[dhfr]

I looked at UNE a few years ago. Compared to USQ and Sturt it's a tough, tough program. So I'm sure the education is excellent.

But for some of us in the U.S. it may not be worth the effort because UNE's reputation hasn't spread this far. So, compared to USQ and C. Sturt, you'd get a degree that was tougher to earn (and somewhat more expensive), but one issued by a university that's equally unknown to most people here. (Actually most people here would probably think UNE is somewhere in the U.S. northeast.)

Just my 2 cents -- opinions to the contrary welcomed!

[James Grey]

I looked at UNE a few years ago. Compared to USQ and Sturt it's a tough, tough program. So I'm sure the education is excellent.

But for some of us in the U.S. it may not be worth the effort because UNE's reputation hasn't spread this far. So, compared to USQ and C. Sturt, you'd get a degree that was tougher to earn (and somewhat more expensive), but one issued by a university that's equally unknown to most people here. (Actually most people here would probably think UNE is somewhere in the U.S. northeast.)

Just my 2 cents -- opinions to the contrary welcomed!

Depends how you assess the spread of its reputation. If you assess this on 'visiting professorships' during sabaticals, UNE is very well known and leaves the other 2 in the shade at least in my areas there of Accounting and Education - and the same goes for UK reputation.

[adamsmith]

I don't necessarily agree that UNE is tougher than say the likes of USQ.

UNE is more 'old fashion' in its ways and perhaps gives the impression of being tougher. One way they have done that over the years is insist on residential schools for some of their external subjects (which means that some of their distance learning courses were not really distance learning!).

However, I have noticed that over the past couple of years reality and university deficits have caught up with them and now most residentials are 'optional'.

What I am saying is don't confuse 'old fashion' with 'toughness'. UNE were one of the first in distance learning, but others like USQ have got a jump on them in recent years by being more responsive to student needs. And I don't mean by that, easier in their assessments. USQ also exam in almost all their subjects at exam centres, and from experience I know they show 'no mercy' if you are not prepared!

Having said all that, UNE is a great university. Again, I talk from experience!

[RodKirkland]

I think I agree wth Peter, I have found MBA's for around $5000 that are accredited. So I don't see the point of even the existence of a Cal Coast, I mean what's so really special about them if you can get an accredited degree for the same price?

This is a fair question and relevant now that so many RA and nationally accredited schools offer distance education. What makes them special is that they were one of the pioneers in California for advanced non-resident education when the big boys wouldn't hear of it. Their base has eroded now that the field has become saturated which is why I believe they are pursuing national accreditation.

Further, they haven't phased out their doctorates. They have posted a moratorium on new applicants but are teaching the doctorate students they have. And the oft repeated statement that CCU doesn't require a significant work as the final project for the DBA is completely false. Not only must you write, your candidacy will be reviewed by a full committee (mine included two PhDs from Harvard, two from SCU, and one from Claremont). I believe they will be one of the first schools to offer a DBA when DETC is granted authority to recognize that level.

[Rich Douglas]

This is a fair question and relevant now that so many RA and nationally accredited schools offer distance education. What makes them special is that they were one of the pioneers in California for advanced non-resident education when the big boys wouldn't hear of it. Their base has eroded now that the field has become saturated which is why I believe they are pursuing national accreditation.

Further, they haven't phased out their doctorates. They have posted a moratorium on new applicants but are teaching the doctorate students they have. And the oft repeated statement that CCU doesn't require a significant work as the final project for the DBA is completely false. Not only must you write, your candidacy will be reviewed by a full committee (mine included two PhDs from Harvard, two from SCU, and one from Claremont). I believe they will be one of the first schools to offer a DBA when DETC is granted authority to recognize that level.

When California had an approval process with meaning, and only a few DL schools had approved programs, CCU was the first DL school offering degrees at all levels to have all of their programs approved. (Schools had to get each program approved individually.) When DETC began accrediting degree-granting schools in a big-time way in the 1980's, it was a mystery why CCU didn't pursue it. Perhaps they finally saw the benefits of DETC accreditation, and felt it was worthwhile to forego future doctoral enrollments in order to get recognized accreditation.

Interestingly, CCU's competition from other, California-Approved DL schools has lessened. When California changed the law, many California-Authorized schools either folded or left. Golden State, U. of Central California, Sierra University, William Lyon, Century, Kennedy-Western, Columbia Pacific, U. of Beverly Hills, and many more are gone/moved. (Not all due to the elimination of the Authorized category, of course.) When we think of non-residential doctoral study from California-Approved schools, we think of CCU, SCUPS, Pacific Western (narrowly), California Pacific, and a small number of others. CCU is definitely the big fish in that pond.

Where CCU's real competition comes from--and I think this is a great development--is from the accredited schools offering short- or non-residency programs. When CCU and the others operated in California's halcyon days, there weren't a lot of accredited alternatives. But now there is. CCU's bid (successful, I hope), along with other success (like Southwest, Columbia Southern, and Andrew Jackson) and even some failures (like Century and SCUPS) shows that legitimate, unaccredited schools are finally realizing that (a) accreditation is accessible and (b) it is the smart thing to do.

As for the no-dissertation DBA, it would be rare to find an accredited school that allowed the award of a doctorate for what amounts to a set of comprehensive exams (which are found in many DBA programs anyway, along with the dissertation requirement). Some DBA programs allow for a more practical doctoral project, but those outcomes are equivalent in scope, originality, and contribution to the field as those from a dissertation. But CCU's DBA outcomes simply don't compare. Perhaps that would change under DETC's accreditation, if that should come about some day.

Oh, and I voted "yes." I've always felt CCU is/was legitimate.

[dr. latin juris]

Now is time to the offended apprentices and graduates of CCU, to ORDER to ODA (Dr. Alan C.) and Michigan Authorities and their droll lists, to eradicate, in ODA case, the ridiculous phase of the ODA web page that says that the degrees of CCU ""does not meet standards required for degree use in Oregon". Moreover, to the Michigan droll, prejudiced, discriminatory and defamatory, with not due process, ridiculous inventory, that eliminates C.C.U of the List.

Students and Ex- Graduates of CCU, start to celebrate and laugh about the not with a due process, ridiculous, discriminatory, prejudiced, droll, unjust, and capable to been sued in Court, classification that ODA (Dr. C), and Michigan give to CCU. :D

[RodKirkland]

The interesting thing about CCU's DBA which many don't understand (since it's not evident from simply reading the catalog) is the concept of comprehensive exam. The CCU catalog states a comprehensive exam is required however a dissertation is not. CCU could improve this description since the CCU approach combines the two by requiring a significant literary research paper (similar to a dissertation) which responds to practical business problems, concepts, and theories across major business discliplines including finance, economics, management, and technology. Finally, a formal doctoral committee (none of whom is your buddy) reviews the candidate's performance, exams, and papers throughout the entire program and evaluates the scholarly approach and demonstration of excellence of the final work including the soundness of doctoral-level content. I found the approach quite efficient and effective with learning outcomes comparable to any similar business program, contrary to Rich's opinion.

[A-N]

A lot of people had derived their "facts" based on opinions or heresy. Before we were all hearing mostly opinions about CCU. When one person starts, another would add something extra, until even opinions had become distorted and blown out of proportion.

CCU had always been an acceptable DL school. In fact, they were one of the early institutions to offer a non-traditional method of study.

A few of us who have done their program(s) can speak from experience and as Rod, Dennis and others had pointed out, CCU courses are not push-overs nor they don't only involve reading a text book and answering multiple choice questions. They were more indepth responses that required answers based on critical and analytical thinking and of course, contrary to what had been said, some courses required papers to be written.

All of that is academic now, CCU is accredited.

[John D]

A lot of people had derived their "facts" based on opinions or heresy. Before we were all hearing mostly opinions about CCU. When one person starts, another would add something extra, until even opinions had become distorted and blown out of proportion.

CCU had always been an acceptable DL school. In fact, they were one of the early institutions to offer a non-traditional method of study.

A few of us who have done their program(s) can speak from experience and as Rod, Dennis and others had pointed out, CCU courses are not push-overs nor they don't only involve reading a text book and answering multiple choice questions. They were more indepth responses that required answers based on critical and analytical thinking and of course, contrary to what had been said, some courses required papers to be written.

All of that is academic now, CCU is accredited.

Let's not also forget that CCU has had full California state approval since the 70's. This means that CCU degrees have been since that time accepted for professional licensing in that big and populous U.S. state. I don't understand the way some Americans think about legitimacy, but to the mind of a simple foreigner such as I, CCU has been fully legit all along.

But, yes, all this is academic, especially now since very soon CCU doctorates will be fully accredited as well.

John Dovelos

[John]

Hi John D,
I hope you will use your Doctor degree from CCU? Others are perpetual students who complete degrees to flip burgers, and serve fries.

Best Regards,
John.

[Theodore Lamar Heiks]

Hi John D,
I hope you will use your Doctor degree from CCU? Others are perpetual students who complete degrees to flip burgers, and serve fries.

Best Regards,
John.Are you implying that being a fast food worker is not an honourable profession? :confused:

[Azaba]

But, yes, all this is academic, especially now since very soon CCU doctorates will be fully accredited as well.


Hello from another non-US born member. I'm afraid that I must be missing something important here. Can you provide me a link to the CCU doctoral programs? Accredited or otherwise? Many thanks.

[Neil Hayes]

Hello from another non-US born member. I'm afraid that I must be missing something important here. Can you provide me a link to the CCU doctoral programs? Accredited or otherwise? Many thanks.

http://www.cpu.edu/degreepro.htm

[Neil Hayes]

http://www.cpu.edu/degreepro.htm

Please ignore that - wrong button!

[worthingco]

http://www.cpu.edu/degreepro.htm

Why the link to CPU (California Pacific University)? Azaba was asking about CCU (California Coast University).

[BryanOats]

Here is the link to CCU: http://calcoast.edu/ (http://calcoast.edu)

[Neil Hayes]

Here is the link to CCU: http://calcoast.edu/ (http://calcoast.edu)

Thanks Bryan. The catalogue on the current website is well worth reading, as it refutes everything those 'experts' have been saying - and are still saying, but I haven't yet found anything about Doctorate degrees.

[Theodore Lamar Heiks]

Thanks Bryan. The catalogue on the current website is well worth reading, as it refutes everything those 'experts' have been saying - and are still saying, but I haven't yet found anything about Doctorate degrees.There is this thing to the right hand side of the page called "CCU News & Features" which has a link to a little blurb about the DETC's recently getting approval to accredit doctorates, in which it says that CCU plans on applying to DETC for accreditation of their doctoral programs. There has been some speculation since the beginning of the DETC's pilot doctoral accreditation project that CCU would likely resurrect their old doctoral programs by late 2006, maybe early 2007.

[Azaba]

Thank you Ted, that is the part I was missing. As far as I can see from their website CCU has no doctoral programs currently. But perhaps they will consider recreating former programs should the DETC smile on them. However, I would think that you'd have to have the programs up and running in order for them to become accredited. I would also imagine that the accreditation process itself can take some time and so, if I am correct in my guessing, I would think that these CCU accredited doctoral programs are still far off. I wish them the best of fortune. Can you say something about the focus of these previous programs?

[Theodore Lamar Heiks]

Thank you Ted, that is the part I was missing. As far as I can see from their website CCU has no doctoral programs currently. But perhaps they will consider recreating former programs should the DETC smile on them. However, I would think that you'd have to have the programs up and running in order for them to become accredited. I would also imagine that the accreditation process itself can take some time and so, if I am correct in my guessing, I would think that these CCU accredited doctoral programs are still far off. I wish them the best of fortune. Can you say something about the focus of these previous programs?I seem to remember someone (I forget which board it was on) posting a link showing that California Coast University's doctorates were approved by the California Bureau of Private Post-secondary and Vocational Education.

[Theodore Lamar Heiks]

I seem to remember someone (I forget which board it was on) posting a link showing that California Coast University's doctorates were approved by the California Bureau of Private Post-secondary and Vocational Education.And here is the link I had remembered seeing. https://app.dca.ca.gov/bppve/school-search/view-school.asp?schlcode=3000321

[Theodore Lamar Heiks]

Thank you Ted, that is the part I was missing. As far as I can see from their website CCU has no doctoral programs currently. But perhaps they will consider recreating former programs should the DETC smile on them. However, I would think that you'd have to have the programs up and running in order for them to become accredited. I would also imagine that the accreditation process itself can take some time and so, if I am correct in my guessing, I would think that these CCU accredited doctoral programs are still far off. I wish them the best of fortune. Can you say something about the focus of these previous programs?As for doctoral programs having to be up and running in order to become accredited, two things are worth remembering. Until recent times, DETC did not accredit doctorates. Therefore, many unaccredited schools with doctorates had to trash the doctorates in order to get DETC accreditation. On the other hand, when an academic program is closed down, there is usually a phase-out period in which no new students are being accepted but the old students are given a chance to finish up their degrees. So, I suspect the CCU docs are up and running; accreditation will simply give them the validity necessary to re-open the doctoral programs for new admittees.

[Azaba]

Based on the link provided, I would expect that the programs that could become available are Business (DBA), Education (EdD), and Psychology (PsyD). Is that your understanding?

[Theodore Lamar Heiks]

Based on the link provided, I would expect that the programs that could become available are Business (DBA), Education (EdD), and Psychology (PsyD). Is that your understanding?Since the DETC accredits only professional doctorates (not research doctorates, like the PhD), I'm assuming that you're correct. The PhD's would be eliminated as the last crop of admittees tie up the loose ends of their dissertations. The other possibility with the PhD's, of course, would be to give the remaining PhD students the option to transfer into the new accredited professional doctorates. For example, those working towards a PhD in Business Administration or a PhD in Management could transfer into the DBA program and those working toward a PhD in Psychology might transfer into the PsyD program. I suppose the PhD in Engineering Management could be "bled into" a DBA with concentration in Engineering Management.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Ted. I hesitate to go there because there may be flesh-eaters around but the distinction you mention would be the fhe first time it would be employed. Simply put, institutions are accredited, not programs. Of course, new programs must still be approved by the accreditor.

[John]

Hi Dennis,
CCU professional doctor program will not be accepted by the California Board of Psychology. Their Doctor programs will be DETC only.

Best Regards,
John.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Hi Dennis,
CCU professional doctor program will not be accepted by the California Board of Psychology. Their Doctor programs will be DETC only.

Best Regards,
John.

I cannot understand why they are not on the list. They are still state approved and still produce doctorates in psychology every week and will for several more years. They may not be authorized by the DETC to grant doctorates but they are by the state.

[John]

Hi Dennis they will never be on the list

Best Regards,
John.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Hi Dennis they will never be on the list

Best Regards,
John.

It's just that their students used to be able to write the exams. Some have done so until quite recently.

Quite obviously, if they aren't on the list now, they never can be.

[Theodore Lamar Heiks]

Hi Dennis,
CCU professional doctor program will not be accepted by the California Board of Psychology. Their Doctor programs will be DETC only.

Best Regards,
John.I can't imagine why that would be, since the graduates of unaccredited, albeit state-approved, PsyD programs such as SCUPS and Ryokan College are qualified to take their state licensure exams in California.

[Theodore Lamar Heiks]

Ted. I hesitate to go there because there may be flesh-eaters around but the distinction you mention would be the fhe first time it would be employed. Simply put, institutions are accredited, not programs. Of course, new programs must still be approved by the accreditor.You are correct, with a few qualifications, of course. Institutional accreditors (regional accreditors and national accreditors, which includes DETC), of course, accredit entire institutions. However, up to recently, the DETC made the qualifier that their accreditation is good only up to the first professional degrees. That explains why I referred to the doctoral programs as accredited. The other qualifier is that professional accreditors (AACSB, ACBSP, and IACBE for business and ATS, ABHE, TRACS for theology) accredit programs rather than institutions.

[Azaba]

I believe that the reasons are laid out in a relatively clear manner in this thread from another discussion board.

http://www.degreediscussion.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2135

[Dennis Ruhl]

I believe that the reasons are laid out in a relatively clear manner in this thread from another discussion board.

http://www.degreediscussion.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2135


I wish the devil would quit quoting scripture. Anyway, here is the correct story.

The problem with CCU was that when the list of California Approved schools eligible to write the psych exam was created in about 1998-99 or whenever CCU was not included for whatever reason. They were never on the list.

Students enrolled in all California Approved psych programs at that time were grandfathered into the new psych exam system and continued to be eligible to write the exams.

With the advent of accredited doctorates in psychology that are not R/A perhaps the system needs twigging. I don't hold my breath as one of the prime functions of the professions seems to be to control admissions to create scarcity.

[Azaba]

Yes, well it seems that regardless of which version of the story you subscribe to, the end point is the same. CCU has a problem if they are interested in a PsyD program.

[John D]

Yes, well it seems that regardless of which version of the story you subscribe to, the end point is the same. CCU has a problem if they are interested in a PsyD program.

Well, in other countries a U.S. degree is accredited provided it is listed as accredited by the U.S. DoE. RA or NA doesn't make any difference.

But even in the U.S., we could safely predict that before long NA will be as acceptable as RA for professional licensing. At least, things seem to be evolving towards that direction.

We have been referring to full psychology licensing, but what about family and marriage counseling licensing? This requires only a master's degree in most U.S. states. Are CCU degrees accepted for this type of licensing? In California, elsewhere? What about other professions, apart from psychology, for which a master's is required?

John D

[James Grey]

Well, in other countries a U.S. degree is accredited provided it is listed as accredited by the U.S. DoE. RA or NA doesn't make any difference.

But even in the U.S., we could safely predict that before long NA will be as acceptable as RA for professional licensing. At least, things seem to be evolving towards that direction.

We have been referring to full psychology licensing, but what about family and marriage counseling licensing? This requires only a master's degree in most U.S. states. Are CCU degrees accepted for this type of licensing? In California, elsewhere? What about other professions, apart from psychology, for which a master's is required?

John D

The last time I checked, only RA is accepted in Australia - DETC is not.

[John]

Hi James Grey,
First warmest wishes for the New Year. James I explained to Neil from the shaky Isles that those degrees unfortunately will no longer be accepted for entry to America, and I am pleased Australia requires R/A degree. Many folk that claim to hold accounting degrees have been rejected from the Institute of Accountants New Zealand.They need to attend a real university.

Best Regards,
John.

[John D]

The last time I checked, only RA is accepted in Australia - DETC is not.

Well, maybe, but Australia is known for its very strict (and not always fair) rules regarding acceptance of foreign degrees. It would appear that acceptance is based more on protectionism than objective evaluation.

The European Union accepts as accredited, degrees from all U.S. universities that appear on the U.S. DoE list of accredited universities. There's no distinction between RA and NA.

John Dovelos

[John D]

Hi James Grey,
First warmest wishes for the New Year. James I explained to Neil from the shaky Isles that those degrees unfortunately will no longer be accepted for entry to America, and I am pleased Australia requires R/A degree. Many folk that claim to hold accounting degrees have been rejected from the Institute of Accountants New Zealand.They need to attend a real university.

Best Regards,
John.

What are "those universities" and what are the accounting degrees rejected in New Zealand? What exactly are you referring to?

In this thread we are discussing CCU, is your cryptic message referring to CCU or something else?

John Dovelos

[Neil Hayes]

What are "those universities" and what are the accounting degrees rejected in New Zealand? What exactly are you referring to? In this thread we are discussing CCU, is your cryptic message referring to CCU or something else? John Dovelos

Degree equivalancy in New Zealand is largely determined by the NZ Qualifications Authority, as are credit transfers, although all tertiary institutions are entitled to allow students from overseas to enrol at any level that they see believe is suitable for a particular student.

[James Grey]

Well, maybe, but Australia is known for its very strict (and not always fair) rules regarding acceptance of foreign degrees. It would appear that acceptance is based more on protectionism than objective evaluation.

The European Union accepts as accredited, degrees from all U.S. universities that appear on the U.S. DoE list of accredited universities. There's no distinction between RA and NA.

John Dovelos

The NOOSR [Australian National office of overseas skills recognition] guide for USA degrees was authored by John Bear.

[Dennis Ruhl]

The NOOSR [Australian National office of overseas skills recognition] guide for USA degrees was authored by John Bear.

So after legitimizing and recommending DETC schools in his books, he somehow thinks they are inferior? I don't get it.

[James Grey]

So after legitimizing and recommending DETC schools in his books, he somehow thinks they are inferior? I don't get it.

Of course not, you are a Canadian :lol: :lol:

[John D]

Of course not, you are a Canadian :lol: :lol:

So, John Bear has an Aussie sense of humour? :crazy2:

John Dovelos

[Neil Hayes]

So after legitimizing and recommending DETC schools in his books, he somehow thinks they are inferior? I don't get it.

JB, who had a pioneer involvement with degree mills (London Institute of Applied Research, etc), will say anything that he thinks will make him a dollar. As recently as 2002 he advised me by email that if I wanted a real degree I should look at KWU, Fairfax or Greenwich! This is much the same as what he preached in his 'bibles' for over 20 years; then the RA fraternity 'got to him', so he now sings the RA or NO WAY song - for money!

[Dennis Ruhl]

Of course not, you are a Canadian :lol: :lol:

Caught any stingrays lately?

[James Grey]

Caught any stingrays lately?

They prefer my arse to my chest and my heart is not that low down so I am still alive :D

[James Grey]

JB, who had a pioneer involvement with degree mills (London Institute of Applied Research, etc), will say anything that he thinks will make him a dollar. As recently as 2002 he advised me by email that if I wanted a real degree I should look at KWU, Fairfax or Greenwich! This is much the same as what he preached in his 'bibles' for over 20 years; then the RA fraternity 'got to him', so he now sings the RA or NO WAY song - for money!

Did he have his tongue in his check or his head up his b*m when he gave you that advice? He recounted it to some as having a crack at you :mad:

[Neil Hayes]

Did he have his tongue in his check or his head up his b*m when he gave you that advice? He recounted it to some as having a crack at you :mad:

He was just as serious then as in 1984, when he sent me an enrolment form for the California University for Advanced Studies. But we need to remember that besides successfully preaching the 'unaccredited' philosophy for over 20-years numerous people who listened to JB became graduates from KWU, GREENWICH, FAIRFAX, CUAS, KU, etc., with many making a significant contribution to society; perhaps more so than most RA or NO WAY graduates.

[James Grey]

He was just as serious then as in 1984, when he sent me an enrolment form for the California University for Advanced Studies. But we need to remember that besides successfully preaching the 'unaccredited' philosophy for over 20-years numerous people who listened to JB became graduates from KWU, GREENWICH, FAIRFAX, CUAS, KU, etc., with many making a significant contribution to society; perhaps more so than most RA or NO WAY graduates.


I received the same mail and people who attended his whirlwind sales tours in Australia are still perplexed ... who he now dumps on at will, and the same fellow has made up with Chip again.

[Jay1]

It's to John's benefit to go back to DI, or, he wouldn't do it.

I've heard from several people who heard John when he was giving his sales pitch. From what they say he was damn good at it. The sales pitch he gave me for Greenwich in 1991 was as good as it gets.

I've also heard from several people who he talked into joining him at several of his unaccredited schools. Needless to say, there are hard feelings out there. He brought them in, dropped out, and then changed his tune, leaving his former partners and employees to catch the rain. Not to mention the former students/and paying clients who have to listen to John call state licensed schools either completely false or merely dreadful. One can imagine how this must stun and bewilder them.

I imagine John Walsh wishes Bear had never talked him into joining Greenwich. Jim Campbell probably doesn't know how lucky he was that Greenwich was moved to Hilo instead of Birmingham.

People who have read the guides over the many years probably can't recognize the man who now posts at the different forums. It's like two completely different people. Oh well, you live and learn. You buy a used car from Honest Sam, and guess what? he wasn't all the name implied.

[James Grey]

It's to John's benefit to go back to DI, or, he wouldn't do it.

I've heard from several people who heard John when he was giving his sales pitch. From what they say he was damn good at it. The sales pitch he gave me for Greenwich in 1991 was as good as it gets.

I've also heard from several people who he talked into joining him at several of his unaccredited schools. Needless to say, there are hard feelings out there. He brought them in, dropped out, and then changed his tune, leaving his former partners and employees to catch the rain. Not to mention the former students/and paying clients who have to listen to John call state licensed schools either completely false or merely dreadful. One can imagine how this must stun and bewilder them.

I imagine John Walsh wishes Bear had never talked him into joining Greenwich. Jim Campbell probably doesn't know how lucky he was that Greenwich was moved to Hilo instead of Birmingham.

People who have read the guides over the many years probably can't recognize the man who now posts at the different forums. It's like two completely different people. Oh well, you live and learn. You buy a used car from Honest Sam, and guess what? he wasn't all the name implied.

Aren't journalists ranked globally with used car salesmen and real estate salesmen in the honesty assessment results?

[Jay1]

You probably have it just about right. In order to get the cash a-flowing, some will paint a fine picture for you, but, sometimes colors fade. Then they can sell you another painting to repalce the one they just sold you. :cuss:

[Jimmy]

JB, who had a pioneer involvement with degree mills (London Institute of Applied Research, etc), will say anything that he thinks will make him a dollar. As recently as 2002 he advised me by email that if I wanted a real degree I should look at KWU, Fairfax or Greenwich! This is much the same as what he preached in his 'bibles' for over 20 years; then the RA fraternity 'got to him', so he now sings the RA or NO WAY song - for money!

Greetings my friend,

Do you still have this email?

[Neil Hayes]

Greetings my friend, Do you still have this email?

Hi Jimmy, sadly no. JB's comments came after I informed him by email that I'd successfully gained Trinity College & University PhD for a 30,000 word brown teal dissertation - having read about TCU in his 'guide'. It was then he informed me that I had been conned and that TCU was a degree-mill, adding those words about 'real degrees'. Not long after that the Brown Teal Conservation Trust published the brown teal management manual that I'd written and I sent JB a copy. I still have those comments, which were:
"Every once in a while, I really enjoy the act of delving deeply (if briefly) into a totally new (for me) area. Sometimes this simply involves picking up a book
someone has left on a library table. Or being dragged along by my wife to a lecture or workshop given by someone I'd never heard of on a topic I barely knew existed. And sometimes a Brown Teal work appears magically on the computer What an immense piece of work this is. And the book is so well designed."
But not too long after these pleasant comments JB referred to me as "AN UNEDUCATED BUFFOON". Clearly words that his 'expert mates' wanted to hear.

[Jay1]

"College Degrees by Mail" 100 Good Schools- By John Bear, Ph.D.
Page- 101, Kennedy-Western University
Page- 67, California Coast University
Page- 90, Greenwich University

"For five years, I was the full-time president of Greenwich (and its predecessor, the International Institute) and of course I wouldn't have done it if I didn't think it was a good school."
--John Bear--from page 90

"In terms of work done, I've heard nothing that worries me about significant changes since the time of my full-time involvement (from the day of Incorporation, 2-2-90 until my amicable departure 16 months later.) Many of the adjunct faculty I hired (all with traditional accredited doctorates) are still involved."
--John Bear--Degreeinfo--2/28/2001

"For those persons willing to spend a year or more to earn their (Graduate) degree, California Coast offers an excellent alternative."
--John Bear--Bear's Guide--10th Edition--Page 85

There is no doubt that counseling clients and buyers of the guides were told exactly what Dr. Hayes mentions.

[Jay1]

By the way even more telling is the fact that John Gray, who received his Ph.D. from Columbia Pacific University (page 75 of the same guide) in 1982. John Bear sold his shares of stock in CPU in 1983. His minority ownership ended only AFTER Gray received his doctorate. Which makes the "Inside Edition" program concerning Gray's degree choice much more interesting for John Bear, had, Gray known of this beforehand. That could have been a major oops for JB had Gray simply said, at the end of the show, "If it was so bad, he shouldn't have sold it to me."

By the way he did help Carr and Crews plan what he described as a "Quality DL Program." I would have thought that Gray received the quality of education that the owners provided. If it was too light or problematic, as Inside Edition was told by John Bear, shouldn't he and the other owners be at fault?

But this is really beside the point. I'm sure Gray was assured that he was getting something of quality. That he believed what he was told is obvious. That is why people's words count and they must be held to what they have done and said. You simply can't walk away and say sorry, not my fault. Or as my old man would have said, "If you don't mean it don't say it." nuff said!!

[john]

Yes, university ok

[Dennis Ruhl]

Just a note.

This thread was started 1 month before CCU was accredited. They were a few naysayers at the time.

[Jimmy]

Now is time to the offended apprentices and graduates of CCU, to ORDER to ODA (Dr. Alan C.) and Michigan Authorities and their droll lists, to eradicate, in ODA case, the ridiculous phase of the ODA web page that says that the degrees of CCU ""does not meet standards required for degree use in Oregon". Moreover, to the Michigan droll, prejudiced, discriminatory and defamatory, with not due process, ridiculous inventory, that eliminates C.C.U of the List.

Students and Ex- Graduates of CCU, start to celebrate and laugh about the not with a due process, ridiculous, discriminatory, prejudiced, droll, unjust, and capable to been sued in Court, classification that ODA (Dr. C), and Michigan give to CCU. :D

Add Texas to this ridiculous list.

[Jay1]

Aren't journalists ranked globally with used car salesmen and real estate salesmen in the honesty assessment results?

Though I haven't really checked any statistics, that would be my guess. I am always concerned when a different tune is whistled at different times for different reasons.

I'm reminded of the story of the Ford salesman who sold Ford cars as the finest on the road, until, he got a better paying job at a Chevrolet dealership. Then lo and behold, Chevrolet had suddenly become the finest cars on wheels. Now had the cars improved that much in a week, or, had the point of view (self-interest) of the salesman changed?

Once Robert E. Lee (after the war) was asked to lend his name to an insurance company. He was offered a lot of money to do so. He asked what he would have to do for such a lot of money. "Not a thing General Lee, we just want to use your name in our advertising." "I'm sorry," General said, "My name is not for sale." With that he stood up and left. This may be a level of continuity and honesty that is beyond most of us, but we have to at least expect some level of it. Our history and actions are all we are, (All We Are).

[Jay1]

Lists are as good as the people who make them. Check the sources and you see the value.