Concordia C & U is affiliated to ECE International

[mosbybranch]

http://www.eceinternational.com/fees_concordia.html

I think this agency is not an "evaluation mill."

[mosbybranch]

Correction: I think this agency is an "evaluation mill."

[michael]

Seems as if they are trying to work off of ECE's name.

[Rector]

Seems as if they are trying to work off of ECE's name.

Can they provide one university RA that accept their evaluations on regular basis ?
The same for government agencies, licensing boards that accept their evaluations.

mybe INS but besides that one.

And the name ECE is confusing because of the NACES
member leading evaluator ECE.
That alone in my opinion is deceprtive.

Rector

[dhfr]

It's outrageous! It's like a fledgling computer company calling itself IBM International. I'm sure the cease and desist letters are already in the mail.

[DegreeSeeker]

Ugh. CANT ANYONE SHUT THESE DOWN!

[mosbybranch]

http://www.eceinternational.com/fees_tiu.html

Trinity Int'l University (http://www.trinityinternationalcu.com/recognition.htm) is also connected to ECE International

[ray1212]

I am personally aware of ECE International http://eceinternational.com/ and know that they are a well respected member and Corporate Partner of the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO). :) You can't get a better recommendation than that!

It's one thing to attack the universities you attempt to destroy, but it is another thing to attack the evaluators. Where do any of you get off second guessing the process of evaluating foreign credentials? Before you know it we will be judging DETC or maybe each of the six regional accrediting agencies in the United States. After we are finished, none of our credentials will be worth a darn. I have an evaluation from them and I am proud to say they have been very thorough and professional in their review of my credential. And I was not awarded a degree from a diploma mill. No further comment necessary.

So please show some restraint and let the process go forward. Many of you sound a bit paranoid and that is why I hate posting or reading many of these forums. :confused:

Sincerely,

Ray1212

[kr]

I am personally aware of ECE International http://eceinternational.com/ and know that they are a well respected member and Corporate Partner of the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO). :) You can't get a better recommendation than that!

It's one thing to attack the universities you attempt to destroy, but it is another thing to attack the evaluators. Where do any of you get off second guessing the process of evaluating foreign credentials? Before you know it we will be judging DETC or maybe each of the six regional accrediting agencies in the United States. After we are finished, none of our credentials will be worth a darn. I have an evaluation from them and I am proud to say they have been very thorough and professional in their review of my credential. And I was not awarded a degree from a diploma mill. No further comment necessary.

So please show some restraint and let the process go forward. Many of you sound a bit paranoid and that is why I hate posting or reading many of these forums. :confused:

Sincerely,

Ray1212
Would you please document your assertion "that they are a well respected member..." of AACRAO? Has any legitimate credential evaluator ever expressed the view that "ECE International" is legitimate, rather than an unreliable organization hoping to benefit from misidentification with the legitimate evaluator ECE (http://www.ece.org/)?

[ray1212]

Please read the bottom of their web page. :crazy2:

http://eceinternational.com/


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Corporate Partner
American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Robert J.]

Although I think Ray is in left field with ECE International. I will quote AACRAO's membership page:
---------------------------------------------------
Features of Corporate Partnership
Representation in AACRAO from each member corporation.
Recognition in AACRAO's Online Member Guide with corporate profile, and listing by products/services offered
Preferred status in selecting booth location at AACRAO-sponsored meetings; preferred status in selection of vendor presentations for limited slots at Annual Meeting
Representation at AACRAO's Corporate Partners Meeting in April.
Opportunities to interact with AACRAO’s Board of Directors, AACRAO Office, and members on an ongoing basis
Discounts on labels, publications, advertising and exhibit rates

Benefits of Corporate Partnership
Open line to market needs for product development
Opportunity to establish ongoing, face-to-face relationships with customers
Ready-made beta-test market
Expanded potential market via word-of-mouth advertising
Better return on every marketing dollar

--End Quote [Emphasis Added]

If being a Corporate AACRAO member means just paying a fee, and if AACRAO doesn't like being exploited, then I think it would behoove them to change the terminology of their Corporate membership[And it's not just a membership it's a partnership]. As someone who works in an industry where the term "partner" means something, it can be misleading and AACRAO is doing a disservice to allow such terminology if they are fast and loose with the term.

[ray1212]

As quoted, "Although I think Ray is in left field with ECE International. I will quote AACRAO's membership page"

......"If being a Corporate AACRAO member means just paying a fee, and if AACRAO doesn't like being exploited, then I think it would behoove them to change the terminology of their Corporate membership[And it's not just a membership it's a partnership]. As someone who works in an industry where the term "partner" means something, it can be misleading and AACRAO is doing a disservice to allow such terminology if they are fast and loose with the term." :twisted:

Wow, amazing! We went from criticizing ECE International for having web page links to Concordia College and University and Trinity College and University to saying the AACRAO is being exploited. Now isn't that a stretch! The point is ECE International is legitmate and a partner of AACRAO, and in the famous words of Vladimir Kramnik http://kramnik.homestead.com/ or Bobby Fischer http://bobbyfischer.net/phpBB2/index.php, CHECKMATE!!!!! :crazy2:

We spend so much time picking to death the supposed "diploma mills", and now when we got nothing better to do with our time, we start on the evaluators. :lol: No one is immune to being ripped apart by the forums that, in my opinion are suppose to supply information regarding degree programs and matters pertaining to their existence, but forget that obtaining an education is all about making a decision for one's self, without being badgered and told what is truth or fiction.

Sincerely,

Ray1212

[Robert J.]

in my opinion are suppose to supply information regarding degree programs and matters pertaining to their existence


You're absolutely right Ray. I take great pride is letting the public know, in our small neck of the internet that when Indian Evaluators ripping off legitimate American evalutators names, in cahoots with mills that they should beware. What's next? NACES International India? There's an infinite number of names they could've come up, yet I'm sure it's just coincidence they came up with "ECE" :rolleyes:

As a member of the public, I also use my right to critisize legitimate providers such as AACRAO themselves as they create an atmosphere that allows these "Partnerships" to exist and to be exploited. They have known darn well what is going on for several years now yet they have done nothing about it. Seminars by the AACRAO folks about mills are nice and all, but they need to clean up their own crap for starters.

[Dennis Ruhl]

We spend so much time picking to death the supposed "diploma mills", and now when we got nothing better to do with our time, we start on the evaluators. :lol: No one is immune to being ripped apart by the forums that, in my opinion are suppose to supply information regarding degree programs and matters pertaining to their existence, but forget that obtaining an education is all about making a decision for one's self, without being badgered and told what is truth or fiction.



I'm afraid there are many accreditation mills. No diploma mill is complete without one. It's probably way less risky to evaluate that sell degrees.

I would say that obtaining a degree is a personal choice but having it evaluated as something it is not is clearly fraudulent. Notice that this ECE International purportedly operates from India.

I bet someone would apostile your degree and evaluation and guess what - still bogus. Don't apply for a teachers job in Georgia.

[ray1212]

Quoted by Robert J.

"You're absolutely right Ray. I take great pride is letting the public know, in our small neck of the internet that when Indian Evaluators ripping off legitimate American evalutators names, in cahoots with mills that they should beware. What's next? NACES International India? There's an infinite number of names they could've come up, yet I'm sure it's just coincidence they came up with "ECE"

"As a member of the public, I also use my right to critisize legitimate providers such as AACRAO themselves as they create an atmosphere that allows these "Partnerships" to exist and to be exploited. They have known darn well what is going on for several years now yet they have done nothing about it. Seminars by the AACRAO folks about mills are nice and all, but they need to clean up their own crap for starters."
__________________________________________________ ______________

Ray's Reply: Like I stated previously, they are a legitmate evaluation agency. :D May I suggest if you would like to gain the experience they have acquired to evaluate foreign credentials, go on their main website and register for their course, then you can evaluate credentials placed before you as you see appropiate. Their cost is $1,500. Maybe the name NACES International is available as a trademark. You can set it up as a secondary part of Degree Board.
__________________________________________________ ______________

Quoted by Dennis Ruhl:

"I'm afraid there are many accreditation mills. No diploma mill is complete without one. It's probably way less risky to evaluate that sell degrees.

I would say that obtaining a degree is a personal choice but having it evaluated as something it is not is clearly fraudulent. Notice that this ECE International purportedly operates from India.

I bet someone would apostile your degree and evaluation and guess what - still bogus. Don't apply for a teachers job in Georgia."
__________________________________________________ ______________

Ray's Reply: They have two locations, one in India and one in the United States. Please refer to their website: http://eceinternational.com/contact.html.

Contact Us
Indian Office
ADDRESS
Education Consultants and Evaluators International
Vimal Kunj #701, Santacruz (W)
Mumbai, Maharashtra 400054 INDIA
FAX 91-22-26323618
E-MAIL admin@eceinternational.com

US Office
ADDRESS
Education Consultants and Evaluators International
4209 Lakeland Dr. #315
Flowood MS 39232 USA
FAX: 1-443-283-9325
E-MAIL admin@eceinternational.com

Fax # Worldwide

US 1-443-283-9325
CANADA 1-514-370-4948
UK 44870-136-4717
INDIA 91-22-26323618
HONG KONG 852-301-02784
__________________________________________________ ______________

So it is not solely operated out of India. As a matter of fact, I see five countries on the website. And finally I can tell you, the person I have been in contact with is as American as Apple Pie, and a whole lot nicer than many of the people who sit in judgment here! :lol: By the way, this evaluation is acceptable for applying for federal government jobs, so maybe I will see you in Georgia someday. I will gladly accept your resume if you apply to my agency. :lol:

It must kill many of you that the forum members can't control the way the real world operates. Live and let live I say, but many of you can't leave well enough alone. You have to criticize, judge and the sociological principle says, put other people down to build up your own ego or self esteem. Have a Great Day! :)

Sincerely,

Ray

[Dennis Ruhl]

Quoted by Robert J.

And finally I can tell you, the person I have been in contact with is as American as Apple Pie

It must kill many of you that the forum members can't control the way the real world operates. Live and let live I say, but many of you can't leave well enough alone. You have to criticize, judge and the sociological principle says, put other people down to build up your own ego or self esteem. Have a Great Day! :)



American as apple pie - aren't they all - from Leningrad to St Kitts to Liberia - except De Lay - he's Belgian - but as fine a Liberian ambassador as there is.

Sorry I can't pat anyone on the back and say congratulations for money well spent. For anyone who doesn't know - you give Concordia money and a resume and they give you a degree - none of those messy courses that you can fail.

Ray - what about CCU? - not up to the challenge? - it isn't that hard - you just work your way through it.

If anyone doesn't want to see the crooks critcized, might I suggest this website if you want a pat on the back.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=53794

[George Brown]

Hi ray1212,

You stated earlier in the thread that you had a degree evaluated by ECE International. I assume you had it evaluated as being equivalent to RA. Can I ask from which institution you earned this degree?

Cheers,

George

[ray1212]

Dear Dennis Ruhl,

:p For your information, I am still actively enrolled in California Coast University. Maybe I am becoming like most people here, professional students, rather than securing a full time job. MBA by late 2006 and PhD (once DETC accredits them) by 2009.

Dear George Brown,

Actually, you know me by now. I fight for the underdog. Most places it is "RA or no way". At least I thought this forum was a little more progressive. I will tell you this much old George, the university is recognized and has students from all over the world, and I have confirmed the degree is transferable. If it will help ease your mind, I did not get a degree from Concordia or Trinity. Ah, to discriminate just because the evaluation agency is located in India, or has a name which is similar to one in the USA is obsurd? :crazy2:

Dear Remaining Respondents:

Chances are if you own a recently purchased computer, you may have the pleasure of calling Microsoft Technical Support. Guess what? The majority of their Help Desk Technicians are located in India. You won't discriminate against them when they help repair that machine which helps you perpetuate much of the garbage you write in these forums. I believe we call that ecommerce, don't we? Why not look at alternative, yet recognized forms of education. http://chronicle.com/colloquy/99/online/08.htm :o

America does not have a monopoly on education in this vast world. In fact it has been discussed many times accreditation is a purely American concept. People criticize Sorbon, for their VAE System "la Validation des Acquis par l'Expérience". All the criticism of them in the world is not going to cause the French government to close their doors. And whatever is stated here is not going to produce a ripple in our educational system anyway. :~(

Sincerely,

Ray1212

[George Brown]

Dear George Brown,

Actually, you know me by now. I fight for the underdog. Most places it is "RA or no way". At least I thought this forum was a little more progressive. I will tell you this much old George, the university is recognized and has students from all over the world, and I have confirmed the degree is transferable. If it will help ease your mind, I did not get a degree from Concordia or Trinity. Ah, to discriminate just because the evaluation agency is located in India, or has a name which is similar to one in the USA is obsurd? :crazy2:

Sorry mate, but I don't know you - and I don't know of anyone called ray1212. Nonetheless, I am still intrigued as to the source of this degree. Can you please provide the name of the conferring institution? If it is not from Concordia or Trinity, then where?

Cheers,

George

[Dennis Ruhl]

I apologize for speaking for others here but I don't think most people here are looking for technicalities. I think they are looking for real schools giving consideration to unaccredited schools and responsible foreign schools.

Speaking for myself, I don't believe that a real doctorate can ever be earned without courses or major writing. A doctorate is a process as well as research and writing. The fact that you know something is less relevant than proving it to your soon to be peers by way of examination and publication. I like the DETC requirement that maxes PLA at 25 % of a program.

[Robert J.]

Mailboxes Etc
4209 Lakeland Dr
Flowood, MS 39232-9212 Phone: (601) 939-6969

[ray1212]

Dear Dennis Ruhl,

OK, I will agree with you regarding a Doctorate. A professional doctorate should me accompanied by a major research project. A PhD must be accomplished by doing research or combined study along with a significant dissertation.

Just because DETC sets a standard of 25 percent for PLA, doesn't make them a majority if you would compare all educational systems worldwide. Although since I am a student of CCU, I will adhere to their standards.

[Dennis Ruhl]

For the record I have a BA and a BComm from the U of Alberta and a B of Sacred Lit from the unaccredited Tripp Bible Institute and have earned but not yet been granted an MBA from California Coast U($100 per month plan). None I would be unwilling to name.

Well there was that course I took from Bernadean University about 12 years ago. I quit after one course. Very few people can get 100% on contract law but I did. Says a bit more about the school than it does me.

[ray1212]

Dear Robert J.

A Mailboxes Etc address doesn't prove anything :lol: :crazy2: . Lots of businesses and individuals have them. I prefer them and I can see why businesses do also. So they don't have to deal with a bunch of nosey people who constantly interrupt their business flow. When you send your Federal Tax Return Form 1040, it goes to a PO Box, in my case located in Cincinnati, Ohio. The actual processing goes on in Covington, Kentucky. Are you going to tell me that because the IRS uses a PO Box, to process their mail that they are operating some sort of scam or want to deceive the public? I would highly doubt it. Just because a business has a United States PO Box or uses a private vendor (Mail Boxes Etc, Fed Ex, etc...), doesn't say they are running an illegitimate business. :p

[Robert J.]

Dear Robert J.

A Mailboxes Etc address doesn't prove anything :lol: :crazy2: . Lots of businesses and individuals have them. I prefer them and I can see why businesses do also. So they don't have to deal with a bunch of nosey people who constantly interrupt their business flow. When you send your Federal Tax Return Form 1040, it goes to a PO Box, in my case located in Cincinnati, Ohio. The actual processing goes on in Covington, Kentucky. Are you going to tell me that because the IRS uses a PO Box, to process their mail that they are operating some sort of scam or want to deceive the public? I would highly doubt it. Just because a business has a United States PO Box or uses a private vendor (Mail Boxes Etc, Fed Ex, etc...), doesn't say they are running an illegitimate business. :p

To quote you and their website:

US Office
ADDRESS
Education Consultants and Evaluators International
4209 Lakeland Dr. #315
Flowood MS 39232 USA
FAX: 1-443-283-9325

A mailbox is not an office.

[ray1212]

Dear Robert J.

Your attempt to cloud the issue is faulty. If I say my address is P.O. Box 125, Atlanta, GA 12701. that doesn't mean that my wife and I live in a four inch by eight inch small box. It is still the mailing address to their US office. We aren't canned tuna! :lol: :twisted:

It is just another location where they receive mail. Like most small businesses, they probably have someone that works at home taking care of the day to day operations of the company. You have to be slightly paranoid to think something is going on. :crazy2:

[Robert J.]

Dear Robert J.

Your attempt to cloud the issue is faulty. If I say my address is P.O. Box 125, Atlanta, GA 12701. that doesn't mean that my wife and I live in a four inch by eight inch small box. It is still the mailing address to their US office. We aren't canned tuna! :lol: :twisted:

It is just another location where they receive mail. Like most small businesses, they probably have someone that works at home taking care of the day to day operations of the company. You have to be slightly paranoid to think something is going on. :crazy2:

You're right again Ray. I am paranoid. An evaluation company named "ECE" International in India coincidently the same name of probably the most well known and prestigious American evaluation company (www.ece.org) who evaluates Concordia and Trinity, of which Concordia claims completely false government acceditation, whose US office (their words not mine) is really a Mailboxes etc. and has Ray1212 vouching for their integrity must truly be legit.

Damn me and my paranoia.

[George Brown]

Just because DETC sets a standard of 25 percent for PLA, doesn't make them a majority if you would compare all educational systems worldwide.

The 25% rule applies here in Australia, if that counts for anything.

Cheers,

George

[Rector]

Well,
The only reason a person will go to ECE International is because they can't get satisfying evaluation from NACES member service.

The same is for Ray, his degree will be evaluated as non RA in USA.

And Mr. Ray knows that.

The degree is from controversial supplier of education.
That is on the Michigan State list of schools can’t be used for jobs in Michigan.

And no US Government agency will accept ECEI evaluations.

NO RA UNIVERSITY will accept the ECEI evaluation for admitting an international student.
Even if students degree from well known foreign university.

in the past being member of organization meant something today its more of membership for a fee.

Wile the school you obtained your degree from is not a mill in my opinion they are unaccredited .

Rector

[George Brown]

If your assertions are true Rector, then won't these newly created, unofficial credential evaluation entities die a quick death? Surely this is gross misrepresentation, punishable under some form of legislation? Imagine how many unhappy unaccredited degree holders there would be, all of whom have been guaranteed RA equivalency. And, indeed, Concordia and TIU customers must be really peeved to find out that these ECEI evaluations are not being accepted by RA institutions...or are they?

Cheers,

George

[Rector]

As we know the field of credential evaluation is unregulated and the reports of such agencies are only convulsive.

I think NACES was an attempt to create a body that will add QA or rigor to the process of foreign degree evaluation.

The evaluation mills will bring regulation on their own heads.
Just like with accreditation the field of credential evaluation may have to be and to a degree is regulated by NACES.

today’s laws allow many loopholes - example is California University evaluation agency/foundation.
They created their own accreditation association of American Universities and they provide diplomas that claim that this is an evaluation and as such it's just a statement of opinion and noting more.

A close friend in SF Valley revealed that Feds are looking in to this outfit.

A person with their evaluation tried to pass himself as an educator - obviously his application was denied by LAUSD and the file was sent to local office of FBI for fraud investigation.

[ray1212]

Good Morning Ladies and Gentleman,

Especially Rector

Please let me quote another "supposed professional" in the field of distance education located in another forum. His name is Alan Contreras of the ODA, better known as the Degree Police. Even in his conservativeism, he has stated that they almost always use AACRAO:
__________________________________________________ ______________

"In practice, we almost always use AACRAO as our foreign school evaluator. The Commission for which I work has expressly approved AACRAO for that purpose, and the University of Oregon also uses them. We sometimes use other services when we think a second opinion will be helpful in a specific case."

"Any information we receive from these services constitutes advice to the state, not a decision. However, I cannot recall that we have ever taken a position that differed from that of AACRAO unless the unique requirements of state law could not be met for some technical reason."

"I mentioned in another thread that the "Robert de Sorbon" Degree Offering Globule actually filed a complaint against the Oregon Department of Justice because we did use AACRAO, which shows how much confidence they have in (a) their true status, and (b) the quality of AACRAO's work."

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?threadid=18372&highlight=aacrao
__________________________________________________ _______________

Ray's Reply: So what is all the fuss with NACES anyway? :crazy2: Even the ODA considers their evaluations to be substandard, next to AACRAO (please forgive me for paraphrasing). And we have already established the relationship ECE International has with the AACRAO on the previous page :lol: ,

At the bottom of their web page http://eceinternational.com/, they list the following:

"Corporate Partner
American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO)"

That means they are a legitimate evaluator of foreign credentials! :D Read it and weep! :lol:

Sincerely,

Ray1212

[George Brown]

...and a 'good evening' to you ray1212, from the sunny land downunder. Soon time for me to be off to bed, after a full day slaving over my PhD.

Now, when are you going to get around to telling me about this qualification that you had evaluated as equivalent to US RA. Sorry to harp on, but it does intrigue me. The name of the conferring institution please?

Cheers,

George

[kr]

Good Morning Ladies and Gentleman,

Especially Rector

Please let me quote another "supposed professional" in the field of distance education located in another forum. His name is Alan Contreras of the ODA, better known as the Degree Police. Even in his conservativeism, he has stated that they almost always use AACRAO:
__________________________________________________ ______________

"In practice, we almost always use AACRAO as our foreign school evaluator. The Commission for which I work has expressly approved AACRAO for that purpose, and the University of Oregon also uses them. We sometimes use other services when we think a second opinion will be helpful in a specific case."

"Any information we receive from these services constitutes advice to the state, not a decision. However, I cannot recall that we have ever taken a position that differed from that of AACRAO unless the unique requirements of state law could not be met for some technical reason."

"I mentioned in another thread that the "Robert de Sorbon" Degree Offering Globule actually filed a complaint against the Oregon Department of Justice because we did use AACRAO, which shows how much confidence they have in (a) their true status, and (b) the quality of AACRAO's work."

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?threadid=18372&highlight=aacrao
__________________________________________________ _______________

Ray's Reply: So what is all the fuss with NACES anyway? :crazy2: Even the ODA considers their evaluations to be substandard, next to AACRAO (please forgive me for paraphrasing). And we have already established the relationship ECE International has with the AACRAO on the previous page :lol: ,

At the bottom of their web page http://eceinternational.com/, they list the following:

"Corporate Partner
American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO)"

That means they are a legitimate evaluator of foreign credentials! :D Read it and weep! :lol:

Sincerely,

Ray1212I have a library card, and often find books there. Does that mean the library vouches for the accuracy (and integrity) of anything I might write, with the threat of revoking my card to hold me to honest work? No, of course not. That's not what a library does. It doesn't cancel the cards of dishonest people, admonish them for their bad behavior, or anything else like that.

That's also the way AACRAO works. You pay your dues, you become a member with right of access to their databases. They do not monitor the integrity of the evaluators who belong to the organization. The fact that AACRAO is incorrectly portrayed as an organization that monitors the practices of its members is is a significant source of irritation and frustration to the administration of AACRAO. Call the Washington office if you don't believe me.

But you almost certainly know this, that AACRAO doesn't watch over its members, dropping them into the garbage if they show themselves to be dishonest.

[ray1212]

Dear George Brown,

Have a Great Night's Sleep. You know someday, I want to visit the Land Down Under. I hear it is pretty, especially the Outback. On the other subject I am merely looking out for the good name of ECE International. They are nice folks, unlike some of the people we meet sometimes here.

As they say in America, "Good Night, Sleep Tight and Don't Let The Degree Bugs Bite!" Oops, that is bed bugs, Sorry, take away my degree and evaluation because I made a mistake.

Sincerely,

Ray1212

[michael]

To quote you and their website:

US Office
ADDRESS
Education Consultants and Evaluators International
4209 Lakeland Dr. #315
Flowood MS 39232 USA
FAX: 1-443-283-9325

A mailbox is not an office.

So, if they are in Mississippi, where is their phone number in E Maryland: Baltimore, Annapolis, Chesapeake Bay area, Ocean City?

Also, Ray,

There is no such thing as a Certified Credential Evaluator. Credential Evaluating in the US doesn't require to be certified, or registered with any entity. Though there are times I think being certifiable is a requirement for being a credential evaluator. Also, most evaluators get their start in a university and then split off and form their own companies after many years of University politics.... Very few evaluators just jump into the business. There are a few that have, but MOST evaluators got their start in the international office of some university.

[Robert J.]

I have a library card, and often find books there. Does that mean the library vouches for the accuracy (and integrity) of anything I might write, with the threat of revoking my card to hold me to honest work? No, of course not. That's not what a library does. It doesn't cancel the cards of dishonest people, admonish them for their bad behavior, or anything else like that.

That's also the way AACRAO works. You pay your dues, you become a member with right of access to their databases. They do not monitor the integrity of the evaluators who belong to the organization. The fact that AACRAO is incorrectly portrayed as an organization that monitors the practices of its members is is a significant source of irritation and frustration to the administration of AACRAO. Call the Washington office if you don't believe me.

But you almost certainly know this, that AACRAO doesn't watch over its members, dropping them into the garbage if they show themselves to be dishonest.

But you see Kr, this is where you err and AACRAO does too. AACRAO uses the term "Partner". In many industries this means more than you or AACRAO says. For example, let's take Oracle for example. If I purchase their ERP package I will purchase it from a "Partner" of theirs who must be certified, have a X number of qualified consultants, X number of revenue per yr, X number of years experience, X number of trainers and so on. Oracles does not have "Partners" who just sign up and start selling to the public without any qualifications or review. AACRAO can be frustrated all they want. But the bottom line is that they use a bad term and this is their own fault and no one elses, AACRAO says nothing on their membership page about Corporate "Partners" have no oversight either and anything else you mentioned, this exploitation has been going on for at least two years now. This is their reputation on the line they are jeapordizing. Sometimes the quickest way of doing something, is to just start doing it. They can start with the website. I have not been very impressed with their actions so far.

[dhfr]

I agree with Robert J. Whenever I deal with a "Partner" of an organization, I am working with an institution that in some significant sense represents the main organization.

[ray1212]

Hello Everyone,

I have a Great Suggestion! Why don't all of you cynics :twisted: and people who have a beef with AACRAO, put your money together and buy them. Then you can sit in your lofty places and dictate policy on how to run things. :D Until then, it is up to them to manage their "Partners" as the choose. It is a waste of time and energy to try and change their policy regarding how they manage their organization. :crazy2:

So if you want to have a foreign degree evaluated, go to NACES, but don't attempt to dance around the mound of issues and say ECE International is a mill. As far as I am concerned, the case is closed. They are legitmate as a partner of AACRAO. I know each of them personally. I know what your suspicious minds are thinking, so get this, I received no special consideration and I am not on their payroll for posting here. They are good people and have a respectable business, and not one of you has the right to sit in judgment no matter what you say or think! They are here to stay, so accept it or see your local therapist! :lol:

Sincerely,

Ray1212

[michael]

Hello Everyone,

I have a Great Suggestion! Why don't all of you cynics :twisted: and people who have a beef with AACRAO, put your money together and buy them. Then you can sit in your lofty places and dictate policy on how to run things. :D Until then, it is up to them to manage their "Partners" as the choose. It is a waste of time and energy to try and change their policy regarding how they manage their organization. :crazy2:

So if you want to have a foreign degree evaluated, go to NACES, but don't attempt to dance around the mound of issues and say ECE International is a mill. As far as I am concerned, the case is closed. They are legitmate as a partner of AACRAO. I know each of them personally. I know what your suspicious minds are thinking, so get this, I received no special consideration and I am not on their payroll for posting here. They are good people and have a respectable business, and not one of you has the right to sit in judgment no matter what you say or think! They are here to stay, so accept it or see your local therapist! :lol:

Sincerely,

Ray1212

I wouldn't use them, they charge to much.

[George Brown]

Dear George Brown,

Have a Great Night's Sleep. You know someday, I want to visit the Land Down Under. I hear it is pretty, especially the Outback. On the other subject I am merely looking out for the good name of ECE International. They are nice folks, unlike some of the people we meet sometimes here.

As they say in America, "Good Night, Sleep Tight and Don't Let The Degree Bugs Bite!" Oops, that is bed bugs, Sorry, take away my degree and evaluation because I made a mistake.

Sincerely,

Ray1212

It was a wonderful sleep, thanks Ray1212. And this time I wasn't dreaming about Murton's theory of social stratification :crazy2: so I am well rested. OK, help me here. You don't want to divulge the name of the degree granting institution from where you obtained your (I assume) unaccredited degree (which has been evaluated by ECE International as equivalent to RA) because you want to protect the good name of ECE International. Surely, if you were proud of your achievements, then you would be screaming it from the roof tops (I certainly would!). C'mon Ray1212 this is sounding awfully familiar. What are you so embarrased about? I just don't understand your rationale - on one hand you are suggesting that ECE International is a bona fide, above board, legit credential evaluator (and I accept your word on that), however on the other hand you refuse to divulge the source of this degree. Can't you see how this raises questions and more red flags?

Cheers,

George

[Dennis Ruhl]

It was a wonderful sleep, thanks Ray1212. And this time I wasn't dreaming about Murton's theory of social stratification :crazy2: so I am well rested. OK, help me here. You don't want to divulge the name of the degree granting institution from where you obtained your (I assume) unaccredited degree (which has been evaluated by ECE International as equivalent to RA) because you want to protect the good name of ECE International. Surely, if you were proud of your achievements, then you would be screaming it from the roof tops (I certainly would!). C'mon Ray1212 this is sounding awfully familiar. What are you so embarrased about? I just don't understand your rationale - on one hand you are suggesting that ECE International is a bona fide, above board, legit credential evaluator (and I accept your word on that), however on the other hand you refuse to divulge the source of this degree. Can't you see how this raises questions and more red flags?

Cheers,

George

George

Just think of all that time you've wasted. Certainly all that work you've done ferreting out degree mills would be worth a doctorate at one. Then all you would have to do is get it apostiled, evaluated and blessed by a Universal Life Church bishop and Patriarch Swift Eagle. Then Oxford and Harvard would be fighting to see who could offer you the biggest research grant. Just ask Ray.

[RXI]

Dennis Ruhl:

...might I suggest this website if you want a pat on the back.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=53794[/QUOTE]


RXI:

I belive there are some changes going on over there. It seems to be a private board and not accessable any more. Hmmm (?).

RXI

[Dennis Ruhl]

Dennis Ruhl:

...might I suggest this website if you want a pat on the back.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=53794


RXI:

I belive there are some changes going on over there. It seems to be a private board and not accessable any more. Hmmm (?).

RXI[/QUOTE]

Why a private board? So all 3 active members can chat once a week. I thought it was me who got the boot. Everyone got the boot. I guess Sheila's proving who's in charge.

[Dennis Ruhl]

I suspect the password protection was in response to my post and will disappear quickly. They changed faster than an SRU website in response to a degreeinfo post. Heck - faster than you can get a degree verified by ECE International but not as fast as you can get the degree in the first case. That's significantly slower with dial-up.

[Rector]

Good Morning Ladies and Gentleman,

Especially Rector

Please let me quote another "supposed professional" in the field of distance education located in another forum. His name is Alan Contreras of the ODA, better known as the Degree Police. Even in his conservativeism, he has stated that they almost always use AACRAO:
__________________________________________________ ______________

"In practice, we almost always use AACRAO as our foreign school evaluator. The Commission for which I work has expressly approved AACRAO for that purpose, and the University of Oregon also uses them. We sometimes use other services when we think a second opinion will be helpful in a specific case."

"Any information we receive from these services constitutes advice to the state, not a decision. However, I cannot recall that we have ever taken a position that differed from that of AACRAO unless the unique requirements of state law could not be met for some technical reason."

"I mentioned in another thread that the "Robert de Sorbon" Degree Offering Globule actually filed a complaint against the Oregon Department of Justice because we did use AACRAO, which shows how much confidence they have in (a) their true status, and (b) the quality of AACRAO's work."

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?threadid=18372&highlight=aacrao
__________________________________________________ _______________

Ray's Reply: So what is all the fuss with NACES anyway? :crazy2: Even the ODA considers their evaluations to be substandard, next to AACRAO (please forgive me for paraphrasing). And we have already established the relationship ECE International has with the AACRAO on the previous page :lol: ,

At the bottom of their web page http://eceinternational.com/, they list the following:

"Corporate Partner
American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO)"

That means they are a legitimate evaluator of foreign credentials! :D Read it and weep! :lol:

Sincerely,

Ray1212

Ray may I sujest you send your degree for evaluation
directly by AACRAO just like ODA.

Let the forum know the result.

Membership with AACRAO is not accreditation its membership for a fee and I can become a member tommorow if i start my own evaluation business.

Try this experiment if AACRAO evaluate your degree and I will keep (name of the school) confidential as USA RA equivalent -yes the DBA - then I will pay for the evaluation.
And recomend some of my friends do the same send their degree to AACRAO for evaluation.

Rector

[Rector]

I wouldn't use them, they charge to much.

Ray :-)

But your evaluation is from ECEI and NOT I REPEAT
NOT from AACRAO.

So what if they are partner member any one who strats evaluation agency can become a member just pay the fee.

Do what I sujest send your DBA to AACRAO directly
and get the result if its equivalent to USA RA

I WILL PAY THE EVALUATION FEES AND ALL THE EXPENSES.

I will be happy for you if your evaluation by AACRAO
will turn positive.

Rector

[Redlyne Racer]

I suspect the password protection was in response to my post and will disappear quickly. They changed faster than an SRU website in response to a degreeinfo post. Heck - faster than you can get a degree verified by ECE International but not as fast as you can get the degree in the first case. That's significantly slower with dial-up.

Rumor has it the board was closed in response to a "death threat." Perhaps kr has more details.

[ray1212]

Hello Forum Members,

Although I sincerely believed ECE International and the people I had dealt with were sincere, this morning, I called and talked with a representative of AACRAO with regards to evaluations by their partners. I will say this, that a certain individual I have been communicating with was very nice, so I don't mean to shoot the messenger, because I believe this person was working for someone and maybe they were not totally aware of the AACRAO policies and legalities. For one thing, I learned the use of the AACRAO logo on the evaluations is a NO NO!!!

Here is a letter I received back this afternoon that should clarify the relationship that AACRAO has with it's partners. I am an honest man, and it upsets me to have to exxpose this information here. I hope you will respect me for the action I have taken here. I apologize for anything I may have said to offend anyone. Thank you for considering my feelings! :( I hope this helps clear up the matter. :~(

Sincerely,

Ray1212

PS: Rector, I will have my degree reevaluated, possibly by AACRAO or another evaluation firm in the near future. I do not "Do" Diploma Mills!
__________________________________________________ _______________

Letter from the AACRAO, Email Dated 4/27/05

To Whom It May Concern,

The AACRAO logo is an exclusive trademark of the Association and its
use by all outside parties requires the prior written permission of the
Association. No such permission has been granted to any company for use
at the present time.

Non-voting corporate members join AACRAO for a variety of reasons,
including access to professional development resources, discounted
member rates for such AACRAO products as our publications or meetings,
and networking with other members. There are no mandatory substantive
prerequisites for corporate membership in AACRAO, and the fact of an
entity's membership status does not, and should not be construed to,
represent an endorsement by AACRAO of such entity or its products or
services. Organizations that are found to have engaged in activities
inconsistent with AACRAO's mission, policies or interests are subject
to expulsion from membership.

Barmak Nassirian
AACRAO
1 Dupont Circle, Suite 520
Washington, DC 20036
202-263-0290
202-872-8857 fax

[Robert J.]

Sorry to hear that Ray. We're not critical because we like to tear people down or drive them into the ground like tent stakes. We're critical because we saw certain things that didn't add up and we want to prevent people from getting ripped off. We were also critical of AACRAO for allowing their "Partner" membership get exploited. It shouldn't have to take a specific phone call to AACRAO to get the information you did. AACRAO needs to do a much better job in the future to get the word out about their partners and what it really means, in reality they need to stop using that term altogether.

Good luck to you and your studies.

[dhfr]

Here's the application form for partners:

http://www.aacrao.org/join/corpap.pdf

All you need to provide is address, credit card, and revenue range (which determines magnitude of dues).

[kr]

Rumor has it the board was closed in response to a "death threat." Perhaps kr has more details.Wow, that's pretty wild!

A death threat made by whom against whom? If the purported threat led to the closing of the board, that would mean the threat was directed against someone running (or thought to be running) the board.

This sounds juicy: inquiring readers want to know more.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Rumor has it the board was closed in response to a "death threat." Perhaps kr has more details.


Closed because of a death threat? Mere children.

I used to get threats of physical violence and death by pm at degreeinfo. When nothing was done, I posted them on the forums and the result was I got threatened with banishment that eventually came, I assume, for cumulative reasons.

[kr]

So this is all very confusing! Redlyne Racer's post suggested that it might be Dixie. But now it's Richard Hoyer! (See that other thread.) Who will be next?

[Tireman4]

Degreeinfo is gone? Is this true? Or is it just down?

[Dennis Ruhl]

Degreeinfo is gone? Is this true? Or is it just down?

Sounds like God's work.

[Redlyne Racer]

Wow, that's pretty wild!

A death threat made by whom against whom? If the purported threat led to the closing of the board, that would mean the threat was directed against someone running (or thought to be running) the board.

This sounds juicy: inquiring readers want to know more.

That's the problem with acting like you know everything. When you try to play dumb nobody believes you.