Columbia Southern University/DBA

[A-N]

CSU is now offering the DBA degree.
http://www.columbiasouthern.edu/DBA/index.htm
It's priced at $375/credit and requires 61 credits beyond the Master's level to complete.

[worthingco]

Were you are Robert J. having a contest to see who could post the fastest on this topic? :D

Overall, the program looks interesting and I'm sure that it's no small undertaking. It's a bit on the pricey side though...if one compares it to say...Northcentral's DBA. I also note that CSU's DBA doesn't offer any concentrations like NCU's. Oh well...I suppose CSU has to start somewhere and concentrations may follow later on as the program evolves.

Thanks for providing the update.

[Dennis Ruhl]

$22,875 for a DBA, not far in price from Northcentral. I am a fan of DETC schools but at that price, do Northcentral. It's a known commodity.

[Robert J.]

Overall, the program looks interesting and I'm sure that it's no small undertaking. It's a bit on the pricey side though...if one compares it to say...Northcentral's DBA. I also note that CSU's DBA doesn't offer any concentrations like NCU's. Oh well...I suppose CSU has to start somewhere and concentrations may follow later on as the program evolves.



NCU is $475 a unit, even if you are able to transfer 30 units and only left with 51 units to complete the DBA, NCU is still more expensive @ $24,225.

Concentrations would be nice though.

[Dennis Ruhl]

NCU is $475 a unit, even if you are able to transfer 30 units and only left with 51 units to complete the DBA, NCU is still more expensive @ $24,225.

Concentrations would be nice though.


A $1,350 discount is not a clincher.

There has to be some reason for people to buy in,

[Robert J.]

A $1,350 discount is not a clincher.

There has to be some reason for people to buy in,

Well if you weren't able to transfer 30 units into NCU and had to do 81 units for the NCU DBA, then an 20 extra units (CSU is only 61 units) @ $475 = $9500 that is almost 42% more for the NCU DBA than the CSU DBA.

[Theodore Lamar Heiks]

Let's compare.
I. DBA only
A. Northcentral University: $475/hr. x 51 hrs. = $24,225
B. Columbia Southern University: ($175/hr. x 1 hr.) = $175 [initial course] + ($375/hr. x 60 hrs.) = $22,500 [remaining 20 courses] = $22,675
C. Difference: $24,225 - $22,675 = $1,550
II. MBA + DBA
A. Northcentral University: $475/hr. x 81 hrs. = $38,475
B. Columbia Southern University: $240/hr. x 36 hrs. = $8,640 [MBA] + $22,675 [DBA] = $31,315
C. Difference: $38,475 - $31,315 = $7,160

[Timothy Jensen]

Let's compare.
I. DBA only
A. Northcentral University: $475/hr. x 51 hrs. = $24,225
B. Columbia Southern University: ($175/hr. x 1 hr.) = $175 [initial course] + ($375/hr. x 60 hrs.) = $22,500 [remaining 20 courses] = $22,675
C. Difference: $24,225 - $22,675 = $1,550
II. MBA + DBA
A. Northcentral University: $475/hr. x 81 hrs. = $38,475
B. Columbia Southern University: $240/hr. x 36 hrs. = $8,640 [MBA] + $22,675 [DBA] = $31,315
C. Difference: $38,475 - $31,315 = $7,160

Australian Universities are far cheaper, and I could get a deal for you through the University of Northern Australia, and possibly toss in a Knighthood as well.

We may in time become the South Pacific arm of WIDU.

[Clicker]

UNA, that's a real school? I have never heard of it. Do you have a link?

Click



Australian Universities are far cheaper, and I could get a deal for you through the University of Northern Australia, and possibly toss in a Knighthood as well.

We may in time become the South Pacific arm of WIDU.

[Timothy Jensen]

UNA, that's a real school? I have never heard of it. Do you have a link?

Click

Yes - I got my MEng from them for $20 on EBay. Other members here have degrees from there. I have lost the address - they may still have it.

[Clicker]

You have a mill diploma. Why not just print it yourself and save 20 bucks.

Yes - I got my MEng from them for $20 on EBay. Other members here have degrees from there. I have lost the address - they may still have it.

[Hawk]

Please stay on topic.

Thank you.

[Sadie02]

Hi,

I am researching schools to complete my degree. BS Health Care Adm.
I am really interested in CSU. I haven't been able to find any information except that they are accred. Can anyone help me understand what it is I should be looking for in a distant learning program. Is CSU a real college ?
I read one message else where that say they are a scam ?

Thank you.

[Neil Hayes]

Hi, I am researching schools to complete my degree. BS Health Care Adm. I am really interested in CSU. I haven't been able to find any information except that they are accred. Can anyone help me understand what it is I should be looking for in a distant learning program. Is CSU a real college ?
I read one message else where that say they are a scam ?
Thank you.

CSU has an excellent reputation amongst alumni - and amongst those in the know. CSU is DETC accredited. Ignore what those others say - they are RA or NO WAY 'experts', who also said CCU was a scam!

From the DETC website:
Columbia Southern University
25326 Canal Road
Orange Beach, AL 36561
Phone 1-800-977-8449 or 251-981-3771; Fax 251-981-3815
Web Site: http://www.columbiasouthern.edu
Founded: 1993
First Accredited: 2001
Next Review: 2010

Associate of Applied Science Degree in Business, and Bachelor of Science Degrees in: Business Administration, Criminal Justice Administration, Environmental Management, Fire Science, Occupational Safety and Health, Hospitality and Tourism, Information Technology, Marketing, Human Resource and Health Care Administration. Graduate Programs: Master of Business Administration (MBA), Master of Science in Criminal Justice Administration, Master of Science in Occupational Safety and Health. Undergraduate Certificate Programs in Finance, Fire Science, Hospitality and Tourism, Human Resource Management, Information Technology, International Management, Management, Marketing, Project Management, and Sport Management. Advanced Undergraduate Certificate Programs in Finance, Fire Science, Hospitality and Tourism, Human Resource Management, Information Technology, International Management, Management, Marketing, Project Management, and Sport Management. Graduate Certificate Programs in Environmental Management, Finance, Health Care Management, Hospitality and Tourism, Human Resource Management, International Management, Marketing, Project Management, Public Administration, and Sport Management. Doctor of Business Administration. (Note: DETC’s scope of recognition by the U.S. Secretary of Education and CHEA is for courses and programs through the first-professional degree level. DETC will be seeking the U.S. Secretary of Education’s recognition of its expanded scope of activity to include professional doctorate degrees in late 2006.

[Sadie02]

Thank you so much.

[Timothy Jensen]

Hi,

I am researching schools to complete my degree. BS Health Care Adm.
I am really interested in CSU. I haven't been able to find any information except that they are accred. Can anyone help me understand what it is I should be looking for in a distant learning program. Is CSU a real college ?
I read one message else where that say they are a scam ?

Thank you.

It is a real college but DETC, not RA. You would need to be sure that:

1. Your current/future employers will always accept a non RA degree;

2. If you consider doing more advanced studies, that the CSU DETC credits will be acceptable for entry to an RA university, as that may be the only option;

3. Upgrading your qualifications at some future date may be mandatory and RA may be the only option.

I would be very hesitant in getting a qualification for a professional/paraprofessional area with a DETC degree unless I was very sure of unqualified positive answers to the above [1, 2]. Most professions are not and are not expected to be DETC tolerant, especially whilst there are so many RA alteratives, irrespective of criticisms at times as to their varying degrees of quality.

Don't get confused by the anti RA-or no way input from some, you'll get it for sure. DETC is not a scam, but it may let you down. Above all you owe yourself the best quality degree to the best level that you can afford before you even think about dropping back the level of acceptability. Dennis is a typical example - he has gone the DETC track with his MBA, but he already has a top first class degree that will be forever accepted in his profession.

Anyway - your choice.

[Sadie02]

I am so disappointed.....but gratful to get this information. I was getting excited after reading the previous posting. CSU doesn't sound like a great idea, since this will be my first degree. Although I am already in the health care field, but have no degree. I am a nurse and am looking to obtain a degree on the other side of the business. I really like the presentation of how the program is set up. Not any recommendations, but are there any RA schools that have a similar set up ?? Or is there a listing I can browse for "Online" RA schools. I am so lost and totally new at this. :(

Thanks, Sadie

[RobbCD]

I am so disappointed.....but gratful to get this information. I was getting excited after reading the previous posting. CSU doesn't sound like a great idea, since this will be my first degree. Although I am already in the health care field, but have no degree. I am a nurse and am looking to obtain a degree on the other side of the business. I really like the presentation of how the program is set up. Not any recommendations, but are there any RA schools that have a similar set up ?? Or is there a listing I can browse for "Online" RA schools. I am so lost and totally new at this. :(

Thanks, Sadie

You could contact the American College of Healthcare Executives (www.ache.org). They require an accredited bachelor's degree for membership, and you could ask them what accreditation they will accept for membership. They also have a directory of health administration programs that they endorse. ACHE (along with the American College of Medical Practice Executives and American Health Information Management Association) are corporate members of the COMMISSION ON ACCREDITATION OF HEALTHCARE MANAGEMENT EDUCATION (CAHME) which is a professional accreditor of healthcare management programs. CAHME is recognized by both the US Dept of Ed and the CHEA.

By way of disclosure, I am a member of the ACHE and ACMPE. Good luck.

[Neil Hayes]

I am so disappointed.....but gratful to get this information. I was getting excited after reading the previous posting. CSU doesn't sound like a great idea, since this will be my first degree. Although I am already in the health care field, but have no degree. I am a nurse and am looking to obtain a degree on the other side of the business. I really like the presentation of how the program is set up. Not any recommendations, but are there any RA schools that have a similar set up ?? Or is there a listing I can browse for "Online" RA schools. I am so lost and totally new at this. :(
Thanks, Sadie

I wouldn't read too much into what Timothy Jensen has to say, as there are some pretty mediocre Regionally Accredited schools. CSU is in fact very successful. EDITED - Please avoid personal remarks. Thank you.

[Sadie02]

I appreciate all input, thank you, but this is pretty confusing and I am trying to get grasp to make the right decsion. I love the lay-out of CSU's courses and would love to go there, but I am highly concerned of all this RA-stuff.
Let me ask, if one aquires a degree from CSU. and later decides to further their edu, to lets say MS level, how is this accomlished if they are Non-RA ? My first thought is that maybe CSU is for one with a degree already. I also read that CSU is partnered with other universities how does this all tie in together ?

Thanks, Sadie

[John]

Dear Timothy,
Hello, yes I agree why would anyone bother studying for DBA at CSU you will learn alot more about nothing and sit in the unemployment department for ever.
The corporate world does not require above Master degree and CPA.They should stop dreaming alot of corporate guys don't even have their Masters degree, only money in the bank heaps of blue chip shares, and four or five properties.

Best Regards,
John.

[Timothy Jensen]

I appreciate all input, thank you, but this is pretty confusing and I am trying to get grasp to make the right decsion. I love the lay-out of CSU's courses and would love to go there, but I am highly concerned of all this RA-stuff.
Let me ask, if one aquires a degree from CSU. and later decides to further their edu, to lets say MS level, how is this accomlished if they are Non-RA ? My first thought is that maybe CSU is for one with a degree already. I also read that CSU is partnered with other universities how does this all tie in together ?

Thanks, Sadie

Sadie, it is better to be disappointed now than later when you find that your DETC degree limits you.

Follow RobbCD's advice - he is in the field and has your interests at heart - typical Robb. You only have to look at many professions and vocations and see the changed requirements over the years and also how those requirements impact upon people qualified long ago under the old rules. Medical scientist for 20 years, lab assistant the next day!

Some people have a very personal interest in [a] labelling some of us as 'RA or no way', and [b] rubbishing to some degree RA degrees. If you took your DETC degree to another country to follow your profession, you would most likely be very disappointed - they are not, and will not for a very long time, if ever, be regarded [rightly or wrongly] as equal to regionally accredited degrees.

This is not to say that the CSU degree may not be excellent, or to refute the cliam by Hayes that some RA degrees could be definitely 'lesser', but the bottom line, is that one is RA and the other is not. EDITED - Please avoid personal remarks - Thank you

Follow RobbCDs advice and he would be happly to correspond with you via email - I would think.

[John]

Dear Timothy,
Hello, yes I did say Columbia Southern University unfortunately their Dean of Business PhD is in Industrial Engineering from Oklahoma State University. Finally I suggest folk red flag this University their accreditation is poor.

Sincerely,
John.

[Hawk]

Guys - Please stick to the discussion topic.

Thank you.

[Hawk]

Dear Timothy,
Hello, yes I did say Columbia Southern University unfortunately their Dean of Business PhD is in Industrial Engineering from Oklahoma State University. Finally I suggest folk red flag this University their accreditation is poor.

Sincerely,
John.

John - If I understand your post ... You infer that DETC accreditation is poor.

That is incorrect. The DETC accreditation process is detailed, extensive and committed to excellence. DETC accreditation ensures high standards.

DETC accreditation, however, may realize fewer acceptances in academia and in the business market. That may not seem fair, but that is the way it is right now.

Regional accreditation provides much more versatility for the degree holder.

[Neil Hayes]

John - If I understand your post ... You infer that DETC accreditation is poor. That is incorrect. The DETC accreditation process is detailed, extensive and committed to excellence. DETC accreditation ensures high standards. DETC accreditation, however, may realize fewer acceptances in academia and in the business market. That may not seem fair, but that is the way it is right now. Regional accreditation provides much more versatility for the degree holder.

Where is your proof that DETC accredited degrees have less utility than RA degrees. In the Douglas research - the only research done in this area - disputes this philosophy quite categorically. Peter should also know that at least one Australian university is DETC accredited.

[Hawk]

Neil - I am a huge supporter of DETC accredited schools and degrees. I have 2 DETC accredited degrees and instruct at 2 DETC accredited universities.

The fact is, unfortunately, I was accepted to instruct at these NA and other RA schools with my RA masters degree.

I don't think that is fair, but that is the fact.

The quality of my DETC accredited schools were excellent, but the utility of my degrees are a bit less. I believe that will change at some point in the future.

I stand by my statement.

Thanks.

[Neil Hayes]

Neil - I am a huge supporter of DETC accredited schools and degrees. I have 2 DETC accredited degrees and instruct at 2 DETC accredited universities. The fact is, unfortunately, I was accepted to instruct at these NA and other RA schools with my RA masters degree. I don't think that is fair, but that is the fact. The quality of my DETC accredited schools were excellent, but the utility of my degrees are a bit less. I believe that will change at some point in the future. I stand by my statement.
Thanks.

Okay, but in industry and commerce, as shown by proven research, a DETC accredited degree has very much the same utility/validity as any other. In fact, knowing that DL graduates invariably have to work considerably harder to earn their degree, many employers will employ them in preference to graduates from B&M traditional schools - remembering that the world does not start and end in the USA (or Australia!). For example, OU and TOPNZ DL degrees often have greater utility that traditional degrees - particularly at the baccalaureate level.

[Neil Hayes]

Sadie, it is better to be disappointed now than later when you find that your DETC degree limits you. [B]Follow RobbCD's advice - he is in the field and has your interests at heart - typical Robb
This is not to say that the CSU degree may not be excellent, or to refute the cliam by Hayes that some RA degrees could be definitely 'lesser', but the bottom line, is that one is RA and the other is not. EDITED - Please avoid personal remarks - Thank you
Follow RobbCDs advice and he would be happly to correspond with you via email - I would think.

Perhaps Peter/Timothy/George could explain to readers why four Australian state funded universities - Monash, Deakin, Southern Queensland and New England - took the trouble to become DETC accredited ????????????????

[Timothy Jensen]

Perhaps Peter/Timothy/George could explain to readers why four Australian state funded universities - Monash, Deakin, Southern Queensland and New England - took the trouble to become DETC accredited ????????????????

They took that route for marketing reasons/overseas funding reasons alone. They don't DETC as they are already equal to RA - it is the sam as some UK universities being also DETC.

This is a totally different argument to the one you are pushing - that is DETC as againts RA. DETC is not RA, rightly or wrongly, and won't be recognised as equal for a long time. This may well ber unfair, but it is a fact. A DETC qualified 'professional' seeking professional accreditation in NZ would have to restudy - if that person was an RA degree holder, the position is completely different. Also you can't draw a parallel with OPNZ and DETC.

We are NOT talking about run of the mill jobs. This topic was specifically addressed in the area of medical services - a controlled environment.

Whether you agree or like it, or Timothy or Peter or Geroge like/dislike it, that fact remains that DETC is NOT RA and RA has more certianily as to utility.

[Neil Hayes]

[QUOTE=Timothy Jensen]They took that route for marketing reasons/overseas funding reasons alone. They don't DETC as they are already equal to RA - it is the sam as some UK universities being also DETC.
QUOTE]

You've hit the nail right on the head Peter - they became DETC accredited because of the status achieved and the resultant improvement in the marketing potential provided by such accreditation. The rest of what you have said is not supported by fact - DETC degrees are accepted by NZQA exactly the same as any other accredited degree. And, by the way, TOPNZ offers several health related DL degrees. And most of the seven state universities in NZ have also jumped on the band wagon and offer degrees by DL - which also shoots your argument, about DL being inferior, down in flames. This is obviously just the same as is happening in Australia.

[Sadie02]

[QUOTE=RobbCD]You could contact the American College of Healthcare Executives (www.ache.org). They require an accredited bachelor's degree for membership, and you could ask them what accreditation they will accept for membership. They also have a directory of health administration programs that they endorse.


Robb,

I searched around the site and couldn't find a listing of schools.
Can you help me out.

Sadie

[Timothy Jensen]

[QUOTE=Timothy Jensen]They took that route for marketing reasons/overseas funding reasons alone. They don't DETC as they are already equal to RA - it is the sam as some UK universities being also DETC.
QUOTE]

You've hit the nail right on the head Peter - they became DETC accredited because of the status achieved and the resultant improvement in the marketing potential provided by such accreditation. The rest of what you have said is not supported by fact - DETC degrees are accepted by NZQA exactly the same as any other accredited degree. And, by the way, TOPNZ offers several health related DL degrees. And most of the seven state universities in NZ have also jumped on the band wagon and offer degrees by DL - which also shoots your argument, about DL being inferior, down in flames. This is obviously just the same as is happening in Australia.

Firstly I am not Peter, and secondly I am no going to prolong this argument.

Australian universities are not DETC institutions - they are the same as RA. It has nothing to do with status as their inherent status needs no modification. You can't draw a parallel between OPNZ and DETC - you can between ONNZ, Polytechnics in UK, CAEs that became Unis here - end of story.

DETC, rightly or wrongly, threatens the utility of a person's education where professional recognition is required.

[Neil Hayes]

[QUOTE=Neil Hayes] Firstly I am not Peter, and secondly I am no going to prolong this argument. Australian universities are not DETC institutions - they are the same as RA. It has nothing to do with status as their inherent status needs no modification. You can't draw a parallel between OPNZ and DETC - you can between ONNZ, Polytechnics in UK, CAEs that became Unis here - end of story. DETC, rightly or wrongly, threatens the utility of a person's education where professional recognition is required.

If you are not Peter French you must be his brother? As for your last 'pearl of wisdom' - what can one say?

[John]

Dear Timothy,
Hi there, Neil is a nice guy, but unfortunately when he talks about NZQA I wave a red flag big time they have slipped badly in their standards over the last six years. Timothy I have taught NZQA courses and they are below Australian education standards. I have American teaching colleagues who will agree.Overseas students don't come to New Zealand in big numbers anymore they wake up quick.Sorry to change tack but Neil included NZQA.Thank you.

Best Regards,
John.

[Neil Hayes]

Dear Timothy, Hi there, Neil is a nice guy, but unfortunately when he talks about NZQA I wave a red flag big time they have slipped badly in their standards over the last six years. Timothy I have taught NZQA courses and they are below Australian education standards. I have American teaching colleagues who will agree.Overseas students don't come to New Zealand in big numbers anymore they wake up quick.Sorry to change tack but Neil included NZQA.Thank you. Best Regards, John.

During my long career in distance education, environmental management and waterfowl research I have always presented totally factual material, data and information - I have never presented subjective and meaningless information, or run a personal agenda, which John is now doing; except for his first comment! The only thing that NZQA suffers from is the 'British Disease', but Australia actually suffers far worse from it than NZ.

[John]

Dear Neil,
I respect your posts and input. Neil as you have never taught in the classroom in Australia I am going to ignore that statement about Australian education.

Regards,
John.

[Capella Rocks]

You could contact the American College of Healthcare Executives (www.ache.org). They require an accredited bachelor's degree for membership, and you could ask them what accreditation they will accept for membership. They also have a directory of health administration programs that they endorse. ACHE (along with the American College of Medical Practice Executives and American Health Information Management Association) are corporate members of the COMMISSION ON ACCREDITATION OF HEALTHCARE MANAGEMENT EDUCATION (CAHME) which is a professional accreditor of healthcare management programs. CAHME is recognized by both the US Dept of Ed and the CHEA.

By way of disclosure, I am a member of the ACHE and ACMPE. Good luck.

Sadie,

After reading this entire thread - Robb gives the best advice for you.

P.S. - I am an adjunct at a DETC school (Andrew Jackson University), an RA DL School (Capella), and FT faculty at a RA Community College (LCO Community College), and a PhD Candidate with Capella. In my courses (Business), I believe the quality of instruction at all the schools I teach at is good, DETC or RA. However, RobbCD is correct - you need to look at your field and determine what degree works. Best of luck.

[Capella Rocks]

You could contact the American College of Healthcare Executives (www.ache.org). They require an accredited bachelor's degree for membership, and you could ask them what accreditation they will accept for membership. They also have a directory of health administration programs that they endorse. ACHE (along with the American College of Medical Practice Executives and American Health Information Management Association) are corporate members of the COMMISSION ON ACCREDITATION OF HEALTHCARE MANAGEMENT EDUCATION (CAHME) which is a professional accreditor of healthcare management programs. CAHME is recognized by both the US Dept of Ed and the CHEA.

By way of disclosure, I am a member of the ACHE and ACMPE. Good luck.

Sadie,

After reading this entire thread - Robb gives the best advice for you.

P.S. - I am an adjunct at a DETC school (Andrew Jackson University), an RA DL School (Capella), and FT faculty at a RA Community College (LCO Community College), and a PhD Candidate with Capella. In my courses (Business), I believe the quality of instruction at all the schools I teach at is good, DETC or RA. However, RobbCD is correct - you need to look at your field and determine what degree works. Best of luck.

[Sadie02]

Hi Everyone:

After reading, and re-reading all the posts regarding RA vs DETC.
I feel it would be in my best interest to pursue a RA degree. I do have a long term goal to teach, (later on in my career) and having a RA degree just seems like a safer route. With that being said the only way I can accomplish this, is with advanced degrees. I am currently in a traditional Nursing program (BSN). I will continue on this path, and hopefully advance into Health Care Administration and or Nursing Education.

Thank you all for your input.

[Neil Hayes]

I'm sure some of you anti-DETC people will be surprised to read this (courtesy RECTOR):
California Law is Changing
In addition to Senate Bill 1568 which does the following:

"6046.7. (a) (1) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the
Committee of Bar Examiners shall adopt rules that shall be effective
on and after January 1, 2008 for the regulation and oversight of
unaccredited law schools"

"(2) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the committee
shall adopt rules that shall be effective on and after January 1,
2008, for the regulation and oversight of nonlaw school legal
programs leading to a juris doctor (J.D.) degree, bachelor of laws
(LL.B.) degree, or other law study degree"

and which will result in the elimination of ulitimately most
correspondence law schools exept for a few, like Nortwestern
California and William Howard Taft and will result in the elimination of the so called non-bar J.D. since law schools
will be run by the committee that oversees admission to practice
law which is what a Juris Doctor degree is for.

NOW COMES AB2810:

This gives the BPPVE an extenstion of time to operate
while California works on completely overhauls the
way it allows schools to operate in California.

Of course with passage of the aforementioned bill, all non-ABA
law schools will be "approved" to operate if not accredited by
the State Bar.

This bill will tighten up the requirements of issuing licenses
to operate a degree-granting University within California
and it is about time, The BPPVE never did their job right.

Since California can not do the job right it should require
all schools "state approved" to have to have DETC or WASC
accreditation within 5 years in order to continue to operate.

The State Bar with the bill should require correspondence
law schools to become DETC accredited with 3 years and then after another 5 years become State Bar accredited if they meet
the requirement.

[Neil Hayes]

And this - which appeared on my computer this morning:

MARKET OPPORTUNITY
Digital Learning Management Corp. is positioning to dominate the domestic and international e-Learning technology platforms and tools market that a recent industry report estimates will be 1.77 billion in the U.S. for 2006. According to ASTD (American Society for Training & Development), U.S. organizations are increasing their investments 16.4% in employee learning. Annual training expenditure per employee increased to 944, up from 820 last year. Formal training per employee increased from 26 hours to 32 hours. Most important training delivered via technology, the sector Digital Learning is focused on, increased from 24% to 28%.
Education spending in the U.S. is 750 billion and over 2 trillion worldwide.
Higher education is a 250 billion market in the U.S.
More money is spent in the U.S. on education than in any other industry with the exception of health care.
Globally, 84 million students attend 20,000 colleges and universities.
66 million adults and more than 50% of all employed persons participate in some form of continuing education.
Less than 25% of U.S. adults have a B.A. or higher.
There were approximately 42 million Students in the U.S. in 1990. In 2010, the estimated number of Students will be 97 million.
Over half a million foreign students study in the U.S. and spend over 13 billion annually.
In 1950, approximately 30% of all U.S. jobs required skilled labor; today, 85% of US jobs require skilled labor.
Size of Global On-Line Education and Training Market:
U.S. Online Higher Education Market (2001): 4.5 billion - U.S. Online Higher Education market (2005): 11 billion (est.)
Size of the the U.S. Postsecondary For-Profit Sector:
There are 9,485 postsecondary institutions in the U.S. Forty-seven percent or 4,463 are Career Schools, Institutes, Colleges and Universities.
There are 6,431 Title IV participating institutions in the U.S. Thirty-seven percent 2,355 are career schools, institutes, colleges and universities.
Digital Learning Management Corporation is a provider of private post-secondary education and supporting Learning Management Systems (LMS) in North America. It's education institutions offer a broad range of academic programs in Computers and Information Technology, Business & Management, Telecommunications and other Applied Industrial Technologies.

[RobbCD]

Hi Everyone:

After reading, and re-reading all the posts regarding RA vs DETC.
I feel it would be in my best interest to pursue a RA degree. I do have a long term goal to teach, (later on in my career) and having a RA degree just seems like a safer route. With that being said the only way I can accomplish this, is with advanced degrees. I am currently in a traditional Nursing program (BSN). I will continue on this path, and hopefully advance into Health Care Administration and or Nursing Education.

Thank you all for your input.

Sadie02,

I contacted the membership department at the American College of Healthcare Executives (ACHE) regarding their requirement of an accredited bachelor’s degree for membership and whether or not DETC accreditation would be sufficient for membership. I was directed to their regulations governing admission, advancement and recertification which read, in part:

APPLICANTS HOLDING BACCALAUREATE OR POST
BACCALAUREATE DEGREES
An applicant who has earned a baccalaureate or post
baccalaureate degree from a college or university that (a) is
accredited by the regional accrediting association in the
U.S. approved by the U.S. Department of Education, or (b)
holds membership in the Association of Universities and
Colleges of Canada, or (c) is accredited by the Commission
on International and Trans-Regional Accreditation

So, for the ACHE, an RA degree is required.

I also know an RN who became the CEO of one of the hospitals where my physicians have privileges. Her name is Susan Davies, her bio is here:
http://www.stvincents.org/aboutus/executiveteam/sdavis.cfm

She is also an ACHE member. So, with hard work, professional networking and the right education, it is possible for an RN to work their way up from the floor to the CEO’s office.

Good luck to you. If you need anything, don’t hesitate to PM my account here.

[Sadie02]

Thank you Robb for going the extra mile to answer my questions. The Bio was very impressive and encouraging.

[Franz]

I have some questions about this Columbia Southern University.
1) Is it privately owned, and run for profit?
2) Why is it on their administration and faculty page, the Administration (President, Provost, etc.), list various degrees WITHOUT naming the universities?

At any rate, the value of DBA's (and MBA's) strikes me as questionable (whether from good universities or diploma mills), because the most meaningful training and credential in business and management is appropriate successful experience. Soon, every second person will have an MBA, and every third person a DBA.

I would be interested in anyone discussion board members have completed MBA's/DBA's, and, if so, do you consider it money and time wisely spent?

[jagmct1]

I have some questions about this Columbia Southern University.
1) Is it privately owned, and run for profit?
2) Why is it on their administration and faculty page, the Administration (President, Provost, etc.), list various degrees WITHOUT naming the universities?

At any rate, the value of DBA's (and MBA's) strikes me as questionable (whether from good universities or diploma mills), because the most meaningful training and credential in business and management is appropriate successful experience. Soon, every second person will have an MBA, and every third person a DBA.

I would be interested in anyone discussion board members have completed MBA's/DBA's, and, if so, do you consider it money and time wisely spent?

The Provost, Dr. Joe Majone is a graduate from Penn State and the President is a graduate from Capella University. The new website should list the faulty degree(s) with the name of the university. Listed below is the history of CSU.
The History of CSU

Dr. Robert G. Mayes, Ph.D. (1945 -2005) founded the University of Environmental Sciences in 1993 following years of experience in developing and presenting safety-training programs to those involved in environmental management and occupational safety and health fields. Initially two certificate programs were offered:

Certified Environmental Compliance Manager (CECM) and,
Certified Ergonomic Compliance Director (CECD).

As envisioned, older and more mature individuals whose professional and family obligations prevented attendance in a traditional classroom setting took these programs. With this in mind, Dr Mayes designed these programs to be completed through Distance Learning.

The response to these programs was overwhelming. So much so, that the University of Environmental Sciences developed its first-degree programs in Environmental Engineering and Occupational Safety and Health in 1994.

In 1996, the infrastructure to administer these programs was firmly in place. So, Dr. Mayes decided the time was right to develop additional degree programs in conjunction with highly regarded subject matter specialist. The first of these new degree programs was Business Administration. It was then followed in succession by Computer Science, Criminal Justice Administration and Health Administration. It was also at this time that Dr. Mayes decided to change the name of The University of Environmental Sciences to Columbia Southern University. The University in its present form had taken shape.

By 2001 Columbia Southern University was accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC) and Hopkins Education Ltd. of Hong Kong became CSU's first international marketing representative. The College of the Bahamas also became an academic partner.

In 2002 CSU's first graduation ceremonies were held in Gulf Shores, AL on April 27th. Graduation weekend included the founding of the CSU Alumni Association and the election of its first president, Julia Wilson.

It was also in 2002 CSU established agreements with University of North Alabama and University of West Alabama to offer creative online degree programs through these two traditional universities.

CSU received DANTES and VA approval, which led to a major emphasis on marketing to military personnel.

In 2003:

*A new marketing representative, The Center for International Training Cooperation (CITC) began offering the MBA program in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam.

*Student enrollment continued to increase dramatically with a significant number of military personnel enrolling in courses.

*Eastern Iowa Community College District signed an articulation agreement with CSU.

*The E-Global Online Library System was added providing an online 24/7 Librarian available for students.

*A Term Enrollment Pilot program was launched and monitored by the V.A. Alabama State approving agency.

*World of Knowledge Management Development Center (WKMDC) was established as the marketing representative in Dubai, United Arab Emirates.

*An articulation agreement with Northcentral University was completed allowing CSU graduate students to pursue select doctoral degrees from Northcentral University.

In 2004:

The DETC approved Bachelor's degrees in Information Technology, Fire Science, Marketing, Human Resource Management and Hospitality and Tourism.

*March graduation ceremonies were held for MBA and BBA students in Hong Kong.

*The BBA and AAS in Business were added to CSU offerings for students in Vietnam in cooperation with the Center for International Training Cooperation (CITC).

*An A.C.E. military evaluation-training workshop was held on the CSU campus.

*Trinidad State Junior College signed an articulation agreement with CSU.
CSU's classification with VA was changed from a Correspondence School to Institution of Higher Learning (IHL). With the new classification of IHL students are entitled to 100% of their educational benefits instead of 55% the student receives at a Correspondence School.

*The University of West Florida became an online academic partner of CSU.
Delta Air Lines selected CSU as a Learning Partner.
Email Manager, which automates, tracks, and rotates emails to and from staff, faculty, and students was implemented.

In 2005:

CSU moved to a modern, much larger facility to kick off the New Year.
Dr. Richard Gray joins CSU as the Dean of Doctoral Programs. He is responsible for developing a pilot Doctorate of Business Administration program that was submitted to DETC for approval in late 2005.

*The first Vietnam graduation ceremonies were held in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City.

*Homeland Security, Boeing Corporation, Franklin Township Police Department, Orange Beach Police and Fire Departments, Allstate Employer Services and Arundel Property Services to name a few become learning partners.

*Articulation agreements were developed with Master's Divinity School and Southwestern College.

*Graduation ceremonies were held in May in Hong Kong and China.

*The third graduation ceremony to be held on the Gulf Coast was conducted in Gulf Shores, Alabama on June 24, 2005.

As Dr. Mayes envisioned, CSU has emerged as a leader in distance education. Over the years Dr. Mayes groomed his son, Robert Mayes, Jr. to lead CSU into the future. Robert Mayes, Jr. has taken over the role as school president.

[Neil Hayes]

I have some questions about this Columbia Southern University.
1) Is it privately owned, and run for profit?
2) Why is it on their administration and faculty page, the Administration (President, Provost, etc.), list various degrees WITHOUT naming the universities?
At any rate, the value of DBA's (and MBA's) strikes me as questionable (whether from good universities or diploma mills), because the most meaningful training and credential in business and management is appropriate successful experience. Soon, every second person will have an MBA, and every third person a DBA.
I would be interested in anyone discussion board members have completed MBA's/DBA's, and, if so, do you consider it money and time wisely spent?

Perhaps you could explain to us why you believe DBA's and MBA's are questionable? And in respect of providing the source of Faculty degrees, very few universities (oustide the USA) provide such details.

[Franz]

Why do I consider MBA's/DBA's questionable?
1) the best training and credential in business administration is experience.
2) they often have low academic qualities (speaking in general), and, although esignated as Master's and Doctorates do not compare in academic standard with standard of an MS or an LLM, or a regular Master's degree.
3) 'business administration' is not a properly defined area with specific technical skills and knowledge, like, for example, physics, law, or engineering.

In response to the second point, if some simply lists a degree, without stating which university, it means very little. For example: "John Smith, Ph.D" carries far less credibility that "John Smith, Ph.D (Havard)".

The fact that some people continue with the practice of listing degrees without indicating the university makes it easier for diploma mills to operate!

[Neil Hayes]

Why do I consider MBA's/DBA's questionable?
1) the best training and credential in business administration is experience.
2) they often have low academic qualities (speaking in general), and, although esignated as Master's and Doctorates do not compare in academic standard with standard of an MS or an LLM, or a regular Master's degree.
3) 'business administration' is not a properly defined area with specific technical skills and knowledge, like, for example, physics, law, or engineering.
In response to the second point, if some simply lists a degree, without stating which university, it means very little. For example: "John Smith, Ph.D" carries far less credibility that "John Smith, Ph.D (Havard)".
The fact that some people continue with the practice of listing degrees without indicating the university makes it easier for diploma mills to operate!

I'm not sure how you can compare an MBA with any other degree? The fact is that the MBA is still the most popular business/commerce degree, with most universities offering a variety of options within the degree, such as - Marketing Management, Financial Management, Organizational Behavior, Financial Accounting, Business and Public Policy, Operations Management, Business Research for Decision Making, Human Resource Management & Strategic Management.

[George Brown]

And in respect of providing the source of Faculty degrees, very few universities (oustide the USA) provide such details.

The Commonwealth Universities Yearbook lists the source of qualifications for all academic staff as provided by each university.

Cheers,

George

[George Brown]

Why do I consider MBA's/DBA's questionable?
1) the best training and credential in business administration is experience.
2) they often have low academic qualities (speaking in general), and, although esignated as Master's and Doctorates do not compare in academic standard with standard of an MS or an LLM, or a regular Master's degree.
3) 'business administration' is not a properly defined area with specific technical skills and knowledge, like, for example, physics, law, or engineering.


I suggest you obtain a copy of the below mentioned article:

Pfeffer, J. and C. T. Fong (2002). "The End of Business Schools? Less Success Than Meets the Eye." Academy of Management Learning and Education 1(1): 78-95.

This will back up many of your assertions with empirical evidence. It's rather eye opening.

Cheers,

George

[Neil Hayes]

The Commonwealth Universities Yearbook lists the source of qualifications for all academic staff as provided by each university.
Cheers, George

That's good news George, but sadly, only wealthy Australian's and their universities can afford the c$690NZ (Inc postage).

[George Brown]

That's good news George, but sadly, only wealthy Australian's and their universities can afford the c$690NZ (Inc postage).

Lucky for you poor Kiwis its now available totally online, and at a very reasonable rate - http://www.acu.ac.uk/cudos/ If you saved your pennies and stopped buying that Banrock crap and shot more ducks you might be able to afford it :lol:

Cheers,

George

[Neil Hayes]

Lucky for you poor Kiwis its now available totally online, and at a very reasonable rate - http://www.acu.ac.uk/cudos/ If you saved your pennies and stopped buying that Banrock crap and shot more ducks you might be able to afford it :lol: Cheers, George

Sounds fine George, but they've just told me I have to be a member/subscriber and that it will cost me:

Subscription Rates
UK EU (excluding UK) Rest of World
Non ACU member university/non-profit organisation £ 940 £ 940 £ 800
Commercial organisation £ 1762.50 £ 1500 £ 1500
Private individual £ 470 £ 470 £ 400

What about 'lending' me your login info?

[George Brown]

What about 'lending' me your login info?

I would if I could, but I can't. Let me just tell you that it all looks good, but it's unfortunately rather dated. Some of the universities info has not been updated since 2004. It provides contact details for all Registrars, Heads of Schools etc and I tried to use this for my research, but gave up. It was much easier just to go to each website and drill down for contact detail from there. Obviously the qualifications of each staff member do not change, and this is interesting info. Out of interest, a cursory seach yields not one unaccredited qualification listed by any staff member. There were many academic staff with type of qual listed, but no source. When I asked the publishers about this, they stated that they relied on the universities to priovide the info. When I asked them if they purposely did not list unaccredited qualifications for staff I got a rather long winded email that did not answer the question.

Nonetheless, an interesting resource, however not widely used. Preliminary results from my study show that amongst Recruitment agencies, private and public providers of higher education in Australia, only 23.7% use this resource as a guide. Interestingly only 50% of universities actually used it.

Cheers,

George

[Neil Hayes]

I would if I could, but I can't. Let me just tell you that it all looks good, but it's unfortunately rather dated. Some of the universities info has not been updated since 2004. It provides contact details for all Registrars, Heads of Schools etc and I tried to use this for my research, but gave up. It was much easier just to go to each website and drill down for contact detail from there. Obviously the qualifications of each staff member do not change, and this is interesting info. Out of interest, a cursory seach yields not one unaccredited qualification listed by any staff member. There were many academic staff with type of qual listed, but no source. When I asked the publishers about this, they stated that they relied on the universities to priovide the info. When I asked them if they purposely did not list unaccredited qualifications for staff I got a rather long winded email that did not answer the question.
Nonetheless, an interesting resource, however not widely used. Preliminary results from my study show that amongst Recruitment agencies, private and public providers of higher education in Australia, only 23.7% use this resource as a guide. Interestingly only 50% of universities actually used it. Cheers,
George

Thanks for that George. To suit my own biased views I tend to refer to the RC Douglas dissertation on degree recognition. Now back to that Banrock Wine!

[Franz]

I'm not sure how you can compare an MBA with any other degree? The fact is that the MBA is still the most popular business/commerce degree, with most universities offering a variety of options within the degree, such as - Marketing Management, Financial Management, Organizational Behavior, Financial Accounting, Business and Public Policy, Operations Management, Business Research for Decision Making, Human Resource Management & Strategic Management.

Dear Dr. Hayes,

The specializations you list largely prove my point. Subjects like 'Marketing management', 'Organization behaviour' and 'Human resources mangement' should NOT be regarded as academic disciplines- thay are a matter of experience and common sense. Undertaking theoretical studies or in 'Marketing Management' will not make a person a better salesperson.

Some business-related subjects are PROPER academic disciplines, e.g. economics, econometrics, accounting, commercial law. But these are properly studied in an M.Ec, LL.M, M.Comm, etc.

The fact is, a MBA, though designated a Master's degree, generally has lower standard of expertise then an undergraduate course is a 'real subject'. Even the best universities view MBA's primarily as money making projects (money making for them, not the graduates, of course!).

[Dennis Ruhl]

Some business-related subjects are PROPER academic disciplines, e.g. economics, econometrics, accounting, commercial law. But these are properly studied in an M.Ec, LL.M, M.Comm, etc.


I don't agree on your disinction between proper and not proper academic subjects. Organizational behavior would cerainly be academic (sociology/psychology) and accounting would not as it is largely a set of arbitrary rules.

I agree that most MBA's are probably below the level of bachelors degrees, being all intro courses.

[Franz]

I don't agree on your disinction between proper and not proper academic subjects. Organizational behavior would cerainly be academic (sociology/psychology) and accounting would not as it is largely a set of arbitrary rules.

I agree that most MBA's are probably below the level of bachelors degrees, being all intro courses.

Sorry for being unclear. The study of organizational behaviour, if pursued as an area for research by a sociologist or psychologist, would certainly be a 'proper' field for academic research. But the work which is undertaken in the context of an MBA hardly falls into this category.

[Timothy Jensen]

Sorry for being unclear. The study of organizational behaviour, if pursued as an area for research by a sociologist or psychologist, would certainly be a 'proper' field for academic research. But the work which is undertaken in the context of an MBA hardly falls into this category.

You would research pure psychology/sociology - organisational behaviour is an applied subject, and therefore very subjective and to a degree mechanistic. The research would at best be psychology/sociology in an organisational beavioural context, not research in organisational behaviour.

Sorry to be picky.

What is your background Franz?

[Timothy Jensen]

Sounds fine George, but they've just told me I have to be a member/subscriber and that it will cost me:

Subscription Rates
UK EU (excluding UK) Rest of World
Non ACU member university/non-profit organisation £ 940 £ 940 £ 800
Commercial organisation £ 1762.50 £ 1500 £ 1500
Private individual £ 470 £ 470 £ 400

What about 'lending' me your login info?

Shoot another duck, write another book, sell another gun :lol:

[Timothy Jensen]

The only thing that NZQA suffers from is the 'British Disease', but Australia actually suffers far worse from it than NZ.

Come on!

The Kiwis are more British than the British - to the extent that when you bleed it is blue!

[Timothy Jensen]

I'm sure some of you anti-DETC people [/B]

Neil, no one has been or is being ANTI-DETC.

It is just a matter of common sense and not risking several years of study that may not be acceptable at some time in the future.

DETC rightly or wrongly, is being looked at as 'second best' in some professional arenas.

[Timothy Jensen]

Why do I consider MBA's/DBA's questionable?
1) the best training and credential in business administration is experience.
2) they often have low academic qualities (speaking in general), and, although esignated as Master's and Doctorates do not compare in academic standard with standard of an MS or an LLM, or a regular Master's degree.
3) 'business administration' is not a properly defined area with specific technical skills and knowledge, like, for example, physics, law, or engineering.

In response to the second point, if some simply lists a degree, without stating which university, it means very little. For example: "John Smith, Ph.D" carries far less credibility that "John Smith, Ph.D (Havard)".

The fact that some people continue with the practice of listing degrees without indicating the university makes it easier for diploma mills to operate!

In some professional areas, MBAs have been referred to as the 45 minute wonder. You get 45 minutes worth of real education and it lasts another 45 minutes.

With the entry being open to all disciplines, it can only really at best reach 2nd year undergraduate level. So really it attempts in a half hearted way be to everything to some people. With topic content, teaching methodology and effective length of the course so varaible, the degree lacks reliability.

Its popularity is being severely eroded globally. Universities are holding on to it where possible as it is a good dollar earner. Management are wanting their executives and future executives be to have more finely tuned skills, and do their post graduate education in specific targetted areas. So MBA out, and specialised masters degree in.

[John]

Dear Timothy,
Hi there, correct MBA out Master degree in. Finally never KNIGHTBRIDGE the back door degree.

Best Regards,
John.

[Neil Hayes]

Dear Timothy, Hi there, correct MBA out Master degree in. Finally never KNIGHTBRIDGE the back door degree. Best Regards, John.

It would be nice to see something sensible from you and your mate Peter. Do a Google on the poularity of the MBA and you might learn something - although this is unlikely!

[Franz]

You would research pure psychology/sociology - organisational behaviour is an applied subject, and therefore very subjective and to a degree mechanistic. The research would at best be psychology/sociology in an organisational beavioural context, not research in organisational behaviour.

Sorry to be picky.

What is your background Franz?

My background is education practice and research, teaching at university and secondary level, and educational administration. I like to think I have an open but cautious mind about the changing nature of education.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Dear Timothy,
Hi there, correct MBA out Master degree in. Finally never KNIGHTBRIDGE the back door degree.

Best Regards,
John.

I am sure a Knightsbridge degree works just fine for many people. Since you obviously have extensive knowledge in the area, please provide some examples of people with a Knightsbridge degree who didn't earn it in an appropriate manner.

You couldn't be referring to Dr. Hayes who submitted in excess of 500,000 words of written material to earn his. 500,000 words seems to be worth 5 doctorates at most universities.

[Robert J.]

In some professional areas, MBAs have been referred to as the 45 minute wonder. You get 45 minutes worth of real education and it lasts another 45 minutes.

With the entry being open to all disciplines, it can only really at best reach 2nd year undergraduate level. So really it attempts in a half hearted way be to everything to some people. With topic content, teaching methodology and effective length of the course so varaible, the degree lacks reliability.

Its popularity is being severely eroded globally. Universities are holding on to it where possible as it is a good dollar earner. Management are wanting their executives and future executives be to have more finely tuned skills, and do their post graduate education in specific targetted areas. So MBA out, and specialised masters degree in.

I agree that MBA's are nothing but watered down and "to the meat" undergrad courses. We've discussed it here before a few times. However, I don't agree the answer is a specialized Master's degree. Most executives and companies I work with (and some are very large companies too) have 20+ years experience and a specialized Master's or MBA or whatever would be of little importance to them and the company in the real world. I also think a specialized degree at the executive level is actually the opposite of what typical corporate structure entails. The higher the posistion, the less focused it is and more "high-level" or "visionary" it becomes. The lower rungs on the ladder get more specialized and focused and technical in nature. Also, I don't really believe that a Specialized Master's that might be in comparison a 15-24 unit difference (or possibly less) like a M.S. in Management to an MBA in Management is going to make a hill of beans difference in any long or short term to a real corporation. This whole argument seems a bit academic to me.

[Neil Hayes]

Finally never KNIGHTBRIDGE the back door degree. John.

Whilst on the Knightsbridge bandwagon there are two new people who post here that display an incredibly naïve knowledge on DL education and on KU. Just as a few other RA or NO WAY disciples do elsewhere. This is simply because both DL and KU, and a number of other private universities, are a serious threat to the ‘establishment’. Such disciples will use every method possible in their efforts to discredit DL and KU; mainly including lies, and/or complete distortion of the facts.
A few of the real facts about KU are:

1. Knightsbridge is a private, self-funding and successful DL university that operates perfectly legally in Denmark. There are in fact a considerable number of private suppliers of education in Denmark – just as there are in many civilised countries
2. KU has been in existence for close to twenty years and survives because it offers high quality courses to discerning adults
3. It is a fallacy to believe that KU needs some sort of external approval to award degrees
4. KU has an impressive Faculty which, unlike most state universities, is not hidden from the public
5. Many of the KU Faculty are world-renowned experts in their field
6. The claim that KU degrees cannot be used in employment or in job applications is naïve and simply not true
7. Many KU graduates hold senior positions in – the military, education, music, engineering, commerce, homeland security, anti-terrorism, management, accounting, economics, psychology, etc
8. Many professional societies recognise KU degrees as part of their membership requirements

It is also interesting to note that the really anti private education people never come up with any informed/factual negative information about KU – they prefer to make snide, disrespectful, destructive and juvenile comments. A close look at these people will show that most are getting paid by state universities to make such comments. Judas would be proud of them.

[Timothy Jensen]

Whilst on the Knightsbridge bandwagon there are two new people who post here that display an incredibly naïve knowledge on DL education and on KU. Just as a few other RA or NO WAY disciples do elsewhere. This is simply because both DL and KU, and a number of other private universities, are a serious threat to the ‘establishment’. Such disciples will use every method possible in their efforts to discredit DL and KU; mainly including lies, and/or complete distortion of the facts.
A few of the real facts about KU are:

1. Knightsbridge is a private, self-funding and successful DL university that operates perfectly legally in Denmark. There are in fact a considerable number of private suppliers of education in Denmark – just as there are in many civilised countries
2. KU has been in existence for close to twenty years and survives because it offers high quality courses to discerning adults
3. It is a fallacy to believe that KU needs some sort of external approval to award degrees
4. KU has an impressive Faculty which, unlike most state universities, is not hidden from the public
5. Many of the KU Faculty are world-renowned experts in their field
6. The claim that KU degrees cannot be used in employment or in job applications is naïve and simply not true
7. Many KU graduates hold senior positions in – the military, education, music, engineering, commerce, homeland security, anti-terrorism, management, accounting, economics, psychology, etc
8. Many professional societies recognise KU degrees as part of their membership requirements

It is also interesting to note that the really anti private education people never come up with any informed/factual negative information about KU – they prefer to make snide, disrespectful, destructive and juvenile comments. A close look at these people will show that most are getting paid by state universities to make such comments. Judas would be proud of them.

Yes ... sorry - what?

[Timothy Jensen]

It would be nice to see something sensible from you and your mate Peter. Do a Google on the poularity of the MBA and you might learn something - although this is unlikely!

Google - is the prime authority? :lol:

Firstly it tells you what has happened, not what is happening. Management are telling the universities that they want people that are more targetted - your local universities will attest to that.

[John]

Dear Timothy,
Hi there, please allow some slack for Neil, because he has never worked as a senior corporate manager.

Best Regards,

John.

[Franz]

Whilst on the Knightsbridge bandwagon there are two new people who post here that display an incredibly naïve knowledge on DL education and on KU. Just as a few other RA or NO WAY disciples do elsewhere. This is simply because both DL and KU, and a number of other private universities, are a serious threat to the ‘establishment’. Such disciples will use every method possible in their efforts to discredit DL and KU; mainly including lies, and/or complete distortion of the facts.
A few of the real facts about KU are:

1. Knightsbridge is a private, self-funding and successful DL university that operates perfectly legally in Denmark. There are in fact a considerable number of private suppliers of education in Denmark – just as there are in many civilised countries
2. KU has been in existence for close to twenty years and survives because it offers high quality courses to discerning adults
3. It is a fallacy to believe that KU needs some sort of external approval to award degrees
4. KU has an impressive Faculty which, unlike most state universities, is not hidden from the public
5. Many of the KU Faculty are world-renowned experts in their field
6. The claim that KU degrees cannot be used in employment or in job applications is naïve and simply not true
7. Many KU graduates hold senior positions in – the military, education, music, engineering, commerce, homeland security, anti-terrorism, management, accounting, economics, psychology, etc
8. Many professional societies recognise KU degrees as part of their membership requirements

It is also interesting to note that the really anti private education people never come up with any informed/factual negative information about KU – they prefer to make snide, disrespectful, destructive and juvenile comments. A close look at these people will show that most are getting paid by state universities to make such comments. Judas would be proud of them.

Dear Dr. Hayes,

I object to your analogy to Judas. If a person criticises something, this does not make it a betrayal of any kind, unless that person has a moral obligation to loyalty.

Are people specifically criticising Knightbridge, or is it just part of a general criticism of non-state universities?

I believe authority (to make laws, to charge taxes, to print money, and to authorise issuing of degrees) must come from a governmental source. Is this an unreasonable view? Would anyone want a driver's licence which was not issued by the proper authorities, but just by a private entity?

[Dennis Ruhl]

I believe authority (to make laws, to charge taxes, to print money, and to authorise issuing of degrees) must come from a governmental source. Is this an unreasonable view? Would anyone want a driver's licence which was not issued by the proper authorities, but just by a private entity?


A license is not needed to practicce accounting in Alberta. To offer sevices in a couple limited areas, licensing is required. Does this make those without licenses criminals? The town that I live in has no business licenses. Are those hundreds of businesses operating legally? Of course they are.

This argument was put to rest some time ago and has been recently revived. The Danish government is fully aware of Knightsbridge and Henrik has corresponded with the education department where they apologized for giving some incorrect information to the internet stalker, Sainz. The stalker was made aware of the correction but has chosen to ignored it.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Yes ... sorry - what?

EDITED FOR NAME CALLING

[Neil Hayes]

Dear Dr. Hayes, I object to your analogy to Judas. If a person criticises something, this does not make it a betrayal of any kind, unless that person has a moral obligation to loyalty.

I was, of course, referring to those self-styled 'experts' who are anti-private enterprise simply because they are on the payroll of RA institutions - to preach the RA or NO WAY philosophy.

[michael]

A license is not needed to practicce accounting in Alberta. To offer sevices in a couple limited areas, licensing is required. Does this make those without licenses criminals? The town that I live in has no business licenses. Are those hundreds of businesses operating legally? Of course they are.

This argument was put to rest some time ago and has been recently revived. The Danish government is fully aware of Knightsbridge and Henrik has corresponded with the education department where they apologized for giving some incorrect information to the internet stalker, Sainz. The stalker was made aware of the correction but has chosen to ignored it.

Interesting considering that I have an e-mail that I recently recieved from the Danish government saying that KU isn't recognized.

[Neil Hayes]

Interesting considering that I have an e-mail that I recently recieved from the Danish government saying that KU isn't recognized.

I believe that neither I nor Dennis suggested that it was. The Danish Government only recognises State funded/regulated universities.
Along with several others KU operates perfectly legally - as mentioned in one of my recent posts.
For further information why not contact KU?

[michael]

I believe that neither I nor Dennis suggested that it was. The Danish Government only recognises State funded/regulated universities.
Along with several others KU operates perfectly legally - as mentioned in one of my recent posts.
For further information why not contact KU?

IMO Doing that would be like me asking SRU if they really are recognized by the government.

[Neil Hayes]

IMO Doing that would be like me asking SRU if they really are recognized by the government.

Now, that is not very constructive is it? You will get the real facts if you contact KU, but it appears that you are not at all interested in the real facts!

[michael]

Now, that is not very constructive is it? You will get the real facts if you contact KU, but it appears that you are not at all interested in the real facts!

I am interested in the real facts, i just don't think i will get them from anyone other than the Government of Denmark. In my opinion, KU is going to say what ever they can to convince me they are the real deal. They have a vested interest in me and my money where as the Danish Government doesn't.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Interesting considering that I have an e-mail that I recently recieved from the Danish government saying that KU isn't recognized.


But operating legally.

The Catholic Church isn't licenced in Alberta.

[Dennis Ruhl]

I am interested in the real facts, i just don't think i will get them from anyone other than the Government of Denmark. In my opinion, KU is going to say what ever they can to convince me they are the real deal. They have a vested interest in me and my money where as the Danish Government doesn't.


No, their vested interest is in state education and state bureaucracy.

[Neil Hayes]

I am interested in the real facts, i just don't think i will get them from anyone other than the Government of Denmark. In my opinion, KU is going to say what ever they can to convince me they are the real deal. They have a vested interest in me and my money where as the Danish Government doesn't.

No, they have a vested interest in their State controlled universities. I would also perceive that you are employed in the State controlled arena?
KU has a great deal of correspondence with the State controllers in Denmark and I'm sure you would be given the opportunity to read it if you ask. But, again, as I've already said - you are not interested. Your brain is obviously closed and unreceptive to factual information.

[Timothy Jensen]

I was, of course, referring to those self-styled 'experts' who are anti-private enterprise simply because they are on the payroll of RA institutions - to preach the RA or NO WAY philosophy.

Interesting - who is on the payroll of RA institutions here? In any event they are presumably QUALIFIED to be so employed for which I believe they should be honoured.

So, who?

[Timothy Jensen]

I believe that neither I nor Dennis suggested that it was. The Danish Government only recognises State funded/regulated universities.
Along with several others KU operates perfectly legally - as mentioned in one of my recent posts.
For further information why not contact KU?

Well, it does have registration - in fact DUAL registration, but as a Language School and a Music School. And it offers doctorates in most things and people accept them and parade them around?

:lol:

[Dennis Ruhl]

Well, it does have registration - in fact DUAL registration, but as a Language School and a Music School. And it offers doctorates in most things and people accept them and parade them around?

:lol:


As well they should. The faculty employed by Knightsbridge seem to be leaders in their field, unlike run of the mill state universities.

But then I could present all the evidence in the world and it won't change anyone's mind. All I ask is a shred of evidence that its programs are in any way inferior. I realize that you consider your opinion as proof but it doesn't cut it. Lets see your evidence. I assume that the lack of evidence will be accompanied by an appropriate silence.

[RobbCD]

But operating legally.

The Catholic Church isn't licenced in Alberta.

I don't think that the Catholic Church issues degrees, either. I'll bet any Catholic Seminaries are licensed and regulated (by accreditation or otherwise).

[michael]

No, they have a vested interest in their State controlled universities. I would also perceive that you are employed in the State controlled arena?
KU has a great deal of correspondence with the State controllers in Denmark and I'm sure you would be given the opportunity to read it if you ask. But, again, as I've already said - you are not interested. Your brain is obviously closed and unreceptive to factual information.

Oh you are so wrong. Again, If i was investigating a an RA unviersity I would be talking to their accreditors not the school.

I am asking the Danish government if they (KU) allows their Danish students access to student grants as is the requirement of Private institutions in Denmark (based on my understanding of the Danish MOE website)

Again, not closed minded, just doing my research.

[Neil Hayes]

I don't think that the Catholic Church issues degrees, either. I'll bet any Catholic Seminaries are licensed and regulated (by accreditation or otherwise).

More homework needed here RobbCD!

[George Brown]

The separation of church and state appears to be purely an American thing (similar to that voluntary accreditation thingy). Here in Australia, anyone wanting to offer a degree must be accredited. And in New Zealand, Neil?

Cheers,

George

[RobbCD]

More homework needed here RobbCD!

Really? The local seminary (Holy Apostles College and Seminary in Cromwell CT) is regionally accredited. Do you have an example of an American, Catholic seminary that isn't accredited or regulated by the comparable Canadian authority?

[Dennis Ruhl]

I don't think that the Catholic Church issues degrees, either. I'll bet any Catholic Seminaries are licensed and regulated (by accreditation or otherwise).

I'm not sure about whether they issue degrees or not, just sainthoods. As we are all saints, it is irrelevant to Protestants.

I don't believe that the government in Alberta accredits strictly religious schools. I suspect many such schools rely on self regulation and on Rome's recognition.

.

[Dennis Ruhl]

I am asking the Danish government if they (KU) allows their Danish students access to student grants as is the requirement of Private institutions in Denmark (based on my understanding of the Danish MOE website)


I have been told never to ask a question unless you already know the answer. You don't disappoint. Perhaps a follow-up question could be how many private-for-profit schools are eligible for study grants. I wouldn't worry about loading the fax with extra paper.

[Franz]

More homework needed here RobbCD!

According to regulations of the Roman Catholic Church, all bishops must be Doctors. The Church (through Pontifical Universities) does issue the DD degree to bishops (if the do not have it already). The STD (Doctor of Sacred Theology) is also a common RC Church degree.

The Archbishop of Cantebury can also issue degrees, by virtue of a charter from the 11th Century (I think), from the Pope. The practice has continued, and remains quite usual. The degrees are generally DLitt, DMus, or MA, with the designation (Cantuar.) or (Lambeth) after the degree. In fact, I believe it is possible for a published scholar to apply for examination for the Lambeth MA directly, although they are normally honorary.

Both of the Cantebury degrees and the degrees of the Pontifical Universities historically proceed any concerns about 'accreditation'. The type of people who receive them would be above any such considerations.

Having said this, all decent seminaries (which would include all of the Church of Rome and the Church of England), which issue degrees like BTh, DMin, etc., as well as Catholic universities run by Jesuits, etc., would certainly be accredited with the appropriate authorities.

[Neil Hayes]

According to regulations of the Roman Catholic Church, all bishops must be Doctors. The Church (through Pontifical Universities) does issue the DD degree to bishops (if the do not have it already). The STD (Doctor of Sacred Theology) is also a common RC Church degree. The Archbishop of Cantebury can also issue degrees, by virtue of a charter from the 11th Century (I think), from the Pope. The practice has continued, and remains quite usual. The degrees are generally DLitt, DMus, or MA, with the designation (Cantuar.) or (Lambeth) after the degree. In fact, I believe it is possible for a published scholar to apply for examination for the Lambeth MA directly, although they are normally honorary. Both of the Cantebury degrees and the degrees of the Pontifical Universities historically proceed any concerns about 'accreditation'. The type of people who receive them would be above any such considerations. Having said this, all decent seminaries (which would include all of the Church of Rome and the Church of England), which issue degrees like BTh, DMin, etc., as well as Catholic universities run by Jesuits, etc., would certainly be accredited with the appropriate authorities.

Well done Franz.

[Timothy Jensen]

As well they should. The faculty employed by Knightsbridge seem to be leaders in their field, unlike run of the mill state universities.

But then I could present all the evidence in the world and it won't change anyone's mind. All I ask is a shred of evidence that its programs are in any way inferior. I realize that you consider your opinion as proof but it doesn't cut it. Lets see your evidence. I assume that the lack of evidence will be accompanied by an appropriate silence.

Really, when you think about it, it is quite amusing, even taking into account the seriousness of it all.

The discussions really are about trying to prove some equality between Knightsbridge University and regular institutions. No one else has to run around making sure that they don't miss any opportunity to try to convince people that they have a valid degree apart from a handful of KU graduates [?] - really, as John bear has so often said ... having to always be ready to defend your degree says a lot about the degree. I notice that you don't have a KU degree ... ?

KU is run from some blokes dining room table, it has the lowest level of school registration [English & Music] otherwise it meets no other form or level of credibility as an educational institution. It then has the gall to issue doctorates in anything between A and Z. That will always work because there will always be a market due to people who otherwise couldn't get a doctorate anywhere else, as [a] they wouldn't qualify for entry, and [b] are possibly not capable of research at that level - writing books maybe, but that is another thing entirely. How much difference really is there between the fake Trinity and Knightsbridge?

The quality of any work that may ever be produced under the aupices of studying with Knightsbridge in no way can alter the fact that Knightsbridge is unaccredited and not even accepted by institutions in its own country. You talk about its programs - programs? Someone dishes up a book that has already been written and published and is not new work or work supervised for the award plus a filing cabinet full of other stuff, and then isn't really sure what actual degree they got? The same thing happened with your fellow countryman.

Enough said, enough bandwidth wasted ... what happened to the abyss that was set up for lost cause topics?

Really - what else can be said, yet some here will keep rabbiting on. Thye will never win, but they will always have the last say.

[Neil Hayes]

Really, when you think about it, it is quite amusing, even taking into account the seriousness of it all. The discussions really are about trying to prove some equality as to Knightsbridge University with regular institutions. No one else has to run around making sure that they don't miss any opportunity to try to convince people that they have a valid degree apart from a handful of KU graduates [?] - really, as John bear has so often siad ... having to always be ready to defend your degree says a lot about the degree. I notice that you don't have a KU degree ... ? KU is run from some blokes dining room table, it has the lowest level of school registration [English & Music] otherwsie it meets no other form or level of credibility as an educational institution. It then has the gall to issue doctorates in anything between A and Z. That will always work because there will always be a market due to people who otherwise couldn't get a doctorate anywhere else, as [a] they wouldn't qualify for entry, and [b] are possibly not capable of research at that level - writing books maybe, but that is another thing entirely. How much difference really is there between the fake Trinity and Knightsbridge? The quality of any work produced under the aupices of studying with Knightsbridge, in no way or ever can alser the fact that Knightsbridge is unaccredited and not even accepted by institutions in its own country. You talk about its programs - programs? Soemone dished up a book that has already been written and is not new work for the award plus a filing cabinet full of other stuff, and then isn't really sure what actual degree they got? The same thing happened with your fellow countryman.
Enough said, enough bandwidth wasted ... what happened to the abyss that was set up for lost cause topics? Really - what else can be said, yet soome here will keep rabbiting on.

Peter, you are most certainly the lost cause. Why don't you go chase a wallaby, istead of continually displaying your complete ignorance about distance learning?

[John]

Dear Timothy,
Hi there, I am pleased that Neil finally states that education in New Zealand has fallen behind acceptable standards including spending loan money on car payments and holidays. Finally when was Timothy called Peter what a laugh.

Best Regards,
John.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Really, when you think about it, it is quite amusing, even taking into account the seriousness of it all.

really, as John bear has so often said ... having to always be ready to defend your degree says a lot about the degree.

I notice that you don't have a KU degree ... ?

How much difference really is there between the fake Trinity and Knightsbridge?

The quality of any work that may ever be produced under the aupices of studying with Knightsbridge in no way can alter the fact that Knightsbridge is unaccredited and not even accepted by institutions in its own country.

Really - what else can be said, yet some here will keep rabbiting on. Thye will never win, but they will always have the last say.


Amusing - why must you attempt to belittle people who don't agree with you? Instead maybe offer some proof of someone who received a Knightsbridge degree without a reasonable amount of work.

And nobody has to defend anomalies like an 8 month doctorate from a regionally accredited school? Where have you been?

I don't have a Knightsbridge degree. I've been working on other things. Some day maybe.

Degree mills try to make the fact that they are selling a product obvious. Knightsbridge fails on this count. The website seems to mention all the work involved. That can't be good for business.

I've never said more than Knightsbridge is a quality unaccredited university. As such, universal acceptance would be, in no way, expected.

What else can be said. Lots. While others are stumbling over themselves selling the Easy Three, which would even be ineligible for California approval, and schools which offer the easiest programs, I cast my net a little wider to include quality unaccredited programs.

Robert, is your website being hijacked. People like me and you who do not believe that R/A is the only way are being portrayed as amusing people to mock at will. There are plenty of other sites that share this opinion. Are you sure we need another one?

[RobbCD]

According to regulations of the Roman Catholic Church, all bishops must be Doctors. The Church (through Pontifical Universities) does issue the DD degree to bishops (if the do not have it already). The STD (Doctor of Sacred Theology) is also a common RC Church degree.

The Archbishop of Cantebury can also issue degrees, by virtue of a charter from the 11th Century (I think), from the Pope. The practice has continued, and remains quite usual. The degrees are generally DLitt, DMus, or MA, with the designation (Cantuar.) or (Lambeth) after the degree. In fact, I believe it is possible for a published scholar to apply for examination for the Lambeth MA directly, although they are normally honorary.

Both of the Cantebury degrees and the degrees of the Pontifical Universities historically proceed any concerns about 'accreditation'. The type of people who receive them would be above any such considerations.

Having said this, all decent seminaries (which would include all of the Church of Rome and the Church of England), which issue degrees like BTh, DMin, etc., as well as Catholic universities run by Jesuits, etc., would certainly be accredited with the appropriate authorities.

Very enlightening. I had no idea that Bishops were required to hold doctorates.

I've done some research, and I've found a few unaccredited Catholic Seminaries in the US or its territories. Most of these are training grounds for missionaries. The website for a semiary in Guam reads, in part:

This seminary is to be governed according to the norms of Canons 232-293 of the Code of Canon Law, its statutes and rule of life, and the personal governance of the Archbishop of Agana. Its statutes and rule of life are herewith approved.

There are similar seminaries in the continentaly US (specifically, the Archdiocesan Missionary Seminary in Newark, NJ, Saint Michael House of formation in Ramsey, NJ, and the St. John Fisher seminary in Stamford, CT; among others). So Neil was right, a little more homework was necessary. I was way off.

[Neil Hayes]

Amusing - why must you attempt to belittle people who don't agree with you? Instead maybe offer some proof of someone who received a Knightsbridge degree without a reasonable amount of work. And nobody has to defend anomalies like an 8 month doctorate from a regionally accredited school? Where have you been? I don't have a Knightsbridge degree. I've been working on other things. Some day maybe.
Degree mills try to make the fact that they are selling a product obvious. Knightsbridge fails on this count. The website seems to mention all the work involved. That can't be good for business. I've never said more than Knightsbridge is a quality unaccredited university. As such, universal acceptance would be, in no way, expected. What else can be said. Lots. While others are stumbling over themselves selling the Easy Three, which would even be ineligible for California approval, and schools which offer the easiest programs, I cast my net a little wider to include quality unaccredited programs. Robert, is your website being hijacked. People like me and you who do not believe that R/A is the only way are being portrayed as amusing people to mock at will. There are plenty of other sites that share this opinion. Are you sure we need another one?

An excellent summary of the situation Dennis. I left this board at one stage because Peter, George and 4 wheel drive, had taken over and we had to experience the same medieval nonsense that we are currently experiencing. I rejoined the discussions after hearing that the brown teal website is still shown here, as well as feeling that, after 37 years in DL, I had something to contribute. Overall this site has been a level above DI and the other DI, but again appears to be controlled by two Ausies. To some extent this is understandable - after the NZ Rugby Union team massacred the Ausies last weekend, but I'm not sure how long I want to remain here when these people appear to not to be remotely interested in distance learning.

[Robert J.]

I am not a big fan of this thread for several reasons. The Staff noticed it was hijacked quite awhile ago into another endless accreditation debate after an innocent person looking for DL options came here. I doubt I will ever see her visit my site again and I don't blame her. The Degreeboard community failed.

I don't like Knightsbridge University and I would never recommend them to anyone. But I know unaccredited degrees work for some and people like Neil made a choice that worked for him today, perhaps not tomorrow, but today it does and that is his choice and his choice alone. He doesn't pass it off as an accredited degree and I find his work commendable and his choice of an unaccredited degree he accepts, both good and with its inherent limitations. I hate that certain people think they can come here and drive people in the ground like tent stakes because they don't agree with other people's decisions and these decisions have nothing to do with them. I can think of a couple of sour sites where this behavior is both accepted and acceptable and common decency is abscent and forgotten.

This isn't one of those sites and it never will be.

I suggest every one back off this thead and move on. Threads like these make me think about closing Degreeboard again as it is not worth the trouble and not worth people getting hurt and insulted time and time again. This site isn't a tool for that.